Embroidered Chevrons:
A Street Sergeant’s Perspective
on First-Line Police Supervision
A Criminal Justice Oral History
Interview
with Retired Sergeant and Thirty-Five Year
City of
Tallmadge, Ohio Police Veteran Mark
Trundle
By
Frank R. DiMenna
*** Article is copyrighted. All rights pertain.
Introduction
The
position of first-line supervision within the ranks of the municipal police
department is fraught with a myriad of roles and duties. Indeed, police Sergeants wear many hats. From paramilitary leader, driving his or her officers toward
the attainment of departmental goals while simultaneously operating within set
rules and regulations, to comrade and sometimes personal counselor, acting as more
of a coach and even friend when the need arises. The role is not for the meek or feeble heart
and is heavily levied with responsibility.
Precariously positioned between a department’s upper management and the
line-level street cop the position of
Sergeant is arguably the most important position in modern day policing. Of course, along with the position comes much responsibility and
liability. Police Sergeants often make
tough split-second decisions concerning the actions of officers and the
deployment of equipment and other resources.
Sergeants can also be held vicariously liable for the actions of those
officers under their command. What makes
a street level police officer want to take on that responsibility and incur
such liability? Further, what constitutes a great Sergeant?
According
to Engel (2001), police Sergeants are generally considered to be the backbone
of the American police organization.
Because of what the job of criminal patrol entails most scholars agree
that supervising subordinate patrol officers is not just a challenge but given
environmental constraints it is sometimes insuperable. The success of police organizations may very
well rest on the shoulders of the first-line supervisor. (Engel, 2001)
That being said it is difficult for a police department to part with a
great Sergeant when retirement time comes around - one that has served with
honor and distinction. The City of
Tallmadge, Ohio recently lost a thirty-five year veteran to retirement – a
valuable resource and comrade who spent the majority of his career in the
position of Sergeant: Marc Trundle.
A
criminal justice oral history interview coming directly from someone with the
experience and background of Sergeant Trundle is an extremely valuable
resource. After thirty-five years of
working the streets Sergeant Trundle has agreed to share his career
experiences, observations, and challenges from his unique perspective. You might not have heard of the City of Tallmadge
before. According to the city’s web site (http://www.tallmadge-ohio.org/), the City of Tallmadge is located in Northeast Ohio, 35 miles southeast of the City of
Cleveland, and
adjacent to the City of Akron. The City was founded in 1807 and today is home
to approximately 17,537 people living in 7,026 households. As a suburb of Akron, the Tallmadge Police
Department faces many challenges with respect to crime as it struggles to
maintain its’ suburban atmosphere.
Managing personnel and resources in an effort to fight and reduce crime
has been a challenge for most departments these days what with the “doing more
with less” mantra being touted as an economic necessity. This presents even
more challenges for police supervisors who are tasked with the critically
important job of keeping crime in check while figuring out new ways of reducing
crime within a tight budget. This paper
hopes to examine the role, duties, challenges, and responsibilities of the
first-line supervisor, the police Sergeant, and how this coveted position has changed over the
last thirty-five years through a review of relevant literature and as told by
retired Sergeant Marc Trundle.
Methodology
By
conducting searches in peer reviewed academic journals, topic relevant books,
and subject specific internet searches a relevant literature review was
conducted and is provided on the role, duties, and functions of police
first-line supervision, namely the Sergeant.
I then conducted a criminal justice oral history interview with retired
Sergeant Marc Trundle of the Tallmadge Police Department. Two separate interviews were conducted. The first interview session lasted approximately
two hours. A follow-up interview was
also conducted in order to ask and answer any additional questions that might
have been missed during the first interview session. The interviews were digitally recorded and
then transcribed in our own words.
Previously conducted criminal justice oral history interviews were examined
in order to understand the nature and methodology used in conducting this type
of interview. The source of these
previous interviews was the Ohio Criminal Justice Oral History Journal website
located at: http://ohiocjoralhistoryjournal.blogspot.com/2011_11_01_archive.html.
Results
Review of Literature
The
position of Sergeant in the modern police organization requires many
attributes. Those who wear the embroidered
chevrons have their hands full – let us break down some of the responsibilities
and issues by reviewing some of the available relevant literature. According to Moore (2005), supervising law
enforcement personnel, who often make life and death decisions when they deal
with the citizens in their jurisdictions, is a difficult task to say the least. During their daily role as supervisor of the
law enforcer, Sergeants draw on life experiences and work experience, but they also have to have a certain
amount of common sense. Common sense requires the use of sound judgment and superior
performance along with exceptional reasoning and rational decision making.
(Moore, 2005) Sergeants supervise
subordinate officers while keeping in mind departmental rules, union contracts,
and all the other applicable rules and regulations; they accept their
assignment and district with ubiquity; they make command decisions; they train
and coach personnel; they evaluate personnel and reports; they use independent
judgment when making daily assignments; and they make effective use of
criminalistics and/or technical examinations at major accidents, incidents,
crime scenes or other investigations. (“Employment opportunity: ..”, 2012) According to Engel (2002) the role of the
police Sergeant ranges from keeping track of subordinate officers’ activities
to making sure departmental rules and regulations are adhered to and followed.
The Sergeant also moves information both up and down the chain of command. They are expected by subordinate officers to
provide a barrier from upper management discipline, which then often benefits them by
increasing the level of respect they receive from subordinate officers. Since the introduction of programs such as
Community Policing the past goals of subordinate control have changed to that
of developing subordinates by emphasizing problem-solving skills, sound
judgment, and creativity. (Engel,
2002) This is a relatively new concept
in what is typically considered a paramilitary organization; a concept that has
not always been welcomed, especially by “old school” supervisors.
How a
subordinate officer feels about them is important to the Sergeant many times,
but the mission has always been the top priority. Those Sergeants who are able to bridge the
gap between boss and mentor in their relationship with subordinate officers are
often the most successful. Unfortunately, this is not always possible. Allen (1982) conveys that police contend with
a wide array of situations and a myriad of laws, codes, and ordinances to
enforce; which can be cumbersome to officers who decide what kinds of actions
should be undertaken during their citizen encounters. (Allen, 1982) This is where their Sergeant comes to the
rescue. A good Sergeant is available if
and when hard questions need to be answered.
That being said, according to Sullivan (2012), there is little doubt
that most Sergeants have waded through knee deep frustrations when attempting
to instill traditional work standards on subordinate officers who sometimes
have completely different standards and views about what constitutes an
officer’s duties. Executives sometimes
hear about how the morale of the department is poor. Morale weakens because of this fight between
established traditions and standards and the differing views of Sergeants and
subordinate officers. Police officers
are typically not fans of supervisors to begin with because they are often
independent and control-oriented, and despise being told what to do. Regrettably, this only adds to an ongoing
level of vexation between an officer’s need for an independent work environment
and the department’s desire to supervise them.
(Sullivan, 2012) Managing and
limiting the negative effects of this tension can be crucial to successful
supervision in police work.
Typically
a Sergeant is in charge of his or her shift and how it is run. As a result they must determine how they want
things to proceed in terms of enforcement priorities. According to Chu and Sun (2007), many
officers emphasize the role of law enforcer.
Others believe in the order maintenance role, which is focused on
disorder problems because they believe it may improve the neighborhood crime
situation by decreasing fear of crime, which will, they contend, eventually
lead to less crime. These are the
service-oriented officers that think police should be more problem solvers than
law enforcers. (Chu & Sun, 2007)
Brown (1988) adds that this concept suggests the role of crime fighter
change to that of “social workers with guns”.
(Working
the street:, 1988) This change of attitude apparently stems from
the concept of community policing, but ultimately how subordinate officer’s approach
their job and how they set their enforcement priorities must be agreed to by
the Sergeants in charge of their shifts. Some Sergeants
prefer an aggressive style of enforcement, which emphasizes a high level of
traffic stops, field interrogations, citations, and arrests. Interestingly, previous research, according to Chu
& Sun (2007), has found that aggressive patrol styles and even directed
patrol have limited effects on crime. In
fact, aggressive patrol intervention has been shown to adversely affect how
citizens feel about police. (Chu &
Sun, 2007) This is important to
Sergeants who may very well have to field many of the complaints resulting from
intense enforcement. According to Van
Maanen (1984), beliefs among police officers who work the streets are that one
cannot police by the book; that most citizens served by the police are
ungrateful, uncooperative, and uncaring; that real police work centers on crook
catching; that the unexpected is to be expected; and that there are few things
police officers have not seen, heard, or dealt with. (Van Maanen, 1984) In fact, according to Edwards, Woodall, and
Butterfield (2005), there has always been a feeling of an “us and them”
mentality between the police and the public.
(Edwards, Woodall, & Butterfield, 2005) Given those feelings it is easy to see the
conundrum of attitudes that exist about how policing should be conducted;
feelings that Sergeants face with every shift.
The
stress associated with police work is well known among researchers. How the Sergeant approaches his supervisory
duties often plays a role in the reduction or worsening of the stress levels
that their subordinates are exposed to at work.
Brehm and Gates (1993) contend that officer’s attitudes about their jobs
and their supervisors affect their rates of compliance to supervision and
therefore affect their performance. They
continue by saying that there is a need to encourage officers to develop
friendships with other officers and to develop a sense that they are doing the
right thing. (Brehm & Gates, 1993)
According to Allen (1982), police work stresses often are based and
center on the alienation that can be experienced from society at large,
immediate family, non-police work friends, and the local community, which can
worsen the longer you serve. Promotion can amplify
this problem. Promotion, according to
Swanson, Territo, and Taylor (1993), amplifies stresses already associated with
police work because Sergeants must often sacrifice family relationships because
of the additional responsibility that promotion brings. Jealous peers who see your promotion as being
proof that they have been passed over unfairly can create a negative relationship
between the Sergeants and passed over subordinates. There is the feeling of isolation that
Sergeants may feel as same level co-workers become subordinates and important
friendships are painfully different or even ended. (Swanson, Territo &
Taylor, 1993) Officers sometimes develop
a feeling that once you get promoted you cannot be trusted. Newly appointed Sergeants are keenly aware of
the peer rule: “never trust a Sergeant”.
(Allen, 1982) These issues can
only add to an already stressful job.
Despite these challenges, according
Chapin, Brannen, Singer, & Walker (2008), police Sergeants are tasked with
supporting the officers they supervise; officers who are often exposed to
traumatic events throughout the course of their shifts. This support can then develop a trust between
Sergeant and officer that they have “got their back”.
Although shootings, stabbings, and the like, are known to all as
traumatic exposures, these are not the only types of police activities that
negatively effect officers. Domestic
violence incidents, horrific crime scenes with homicide or suicide victims,
traffic stops with many subjects and warrants, and being exposed to the gore
and pain stricken of motor vehicle accidents are all examples of stress
inducing situations. Life threatening
and horrific incident exposures are not the only sources of stress, but stress
from within the police department are sources of stress as well, not to mention
problems that pit the job of being a police officer against family life. (Chapin, Brannen, Singer, & Walker,
2008) Also, Sergeants are positioned
where they must interpret, explain, and enforce the policies and decisions
enacted by the administration while simultaneously having to be empathetic to
the officers he or she supervises. (Schafer
& Martinelli, 2008)
According
to Aron and Violanti (1995), stress comes to officers through two main
sources: organizational practices and
the inherent nature of police work.
Police department administrations can be thought of by officers as being
non-supportive and unresponsive to their needs.
For example, an officer’s personal career goals can be at odds with
departmental demands. (Aron &
Violanti, 1995) In addition, Stotland
(1991) adds that officers report that other issues are problematic and add to
their stresses: the criminal justice
system in general, lacking supervision, excessive paperwork, family problems,
shift work, and fear. (Stotland,
1991) Punch (1985) brings up a good
point that the media, action groups, commissions of enquiry, academic research,
and legal changes have changed the playing field imposing new norms of
accountability and responsibility – not just on officers but on the Sergeants
who supervise them. (Punch, 1985) Additionally, inside the police organization
changes in leadership styles as well as money and manpower limitations have
necessitated demands for more effective and efficient managerial
approaches. (Reuss-Ianni, 1983) Is there one type of management style for the
position of Sergeant that is perhaps better than another considering the above
listed factors?
Styles
of police supervision, according to Engel (2001), have evolved over the years
and have been defined in several ways.
These classic styles of leadership were the main focus early on in
research: authoritarian, democratic, and
laissez-faire. The Sergeant’s activity
level was a key factor to these styles.
Researchers later defined four types of supervisory styles: telling, selling, participative, and
delegating. These styles formed around
one-way and two-way communication between Sergeants and officers. The well being of officers was the focus of
Sergeants who were more relations oriented.
This style of leadership pursued an approach that was centered on
human-relations and maintained a supportive relationship with subordinates
through friendship and mutual trust.
Conversely, task-oriented Sergeants focus on the goals of the work
group, how to achieve these goals, and group production – basically on what is
produced and what has been achieved.
Lastly, we have those who work to inspire and motivate subordinate
officers, focusing on building team spirit, showing their commitment to goals
and a shared vision. (Engel, 2001)
Engel
(2001) also identifies four different styles of supervision in police
work: traditional, innovative,
supportive, and active. The traditional
style of Sergeant wants officers to produce results in areas such as arrests,
citations, along with errorless paperwork and documentation. This style is what one might expect to find
in a police department. Power and
community-relations are the main focus of the innovative leader. They also have more subordinate officers that
they consider friends, are low task-orientated, and often view them more
positively. Their “innovativeness” stems
from their support of innovative changes and reduced concern with rules and
regulation enforcement, report writing, or other task-oriented activities.
These Sergeants let subordinate officers handle their own calls for
service, rarely take over calls themselves and frequently delegate
decision-making. Supportive Sergeants
are characterized by protecting subordinate officers from “unfair” punishment
or discipline and work at providing inspiration and motivation. Enforcing rules and regulations, correcting
paperwork, or checking that officers are not slacking is not their major
concern. They prefer to act as a buffer
between officers and management, which unfortunately shields officers from
accountability and can often lead to police misconduct. Finally, the active Sergeant prefers high
levels of activity and views subordinate officers in a positive light. They like to be on the street giving
direction and not stuck behind a desk.
Working with officers on patrol while maintaining direct supervision are
important to the active Sergeant and achieved mainly by striking a balance
between the two. (Engel, 2001)
Whisenaud
and Rush (1998) contend that if police management strives to provide quality
services to the public then promoting responsible Sergeants is one of the most
important steps. A partnership between
upper management and first-level supervision is preferable over a hierarchical
type of authority. A partnership through
empowerment reduces dependency.
Hierarchies typically push decision making to the top of the department
breeding dependency by subordinate officers, which in turn fosters and allows
low commitment levels and provides for poor quality of services, while
partnerships push decisions to the bottom.
(Whisenaud & Rush, 1998)
Pursley (1974), as a national study, identified two types of police leadership: traditional and nontraditional. The traditionalists required the environment
in which they worked and the officers they supervised to be controlled and
structured while the non-traditionalists showed a greater willingness to delegate and
listen to subordinate officers’ ideas, which is associated with a more
participatory democratic approach to leadership. (Pursley, 1974) According to Fyfe, Greene, Walsh, Wilson &
McLaren (1997), a valuable resource is wasted by leaders who do not advocate a
more participatory approach. Whenever
possible subordinate officers should participate in meaningful discussion about
how their skills can best be used.
Typically, in quasi-military organizations, there is a sharp division
between staff and line officers. The basis of this division is the thinking that line
officers should have no part in the decision making process. This perpetuates the belief that the “high
law” thinks of subordinate officers as inferior adversaries that should not be
trusted. However, the administration, in
order to successfully provide police services to the public, must work hard to
eliminate these types of divisions and move to a management style that promotes
a sense of teamwork whereby every resource available is utilized regardless of
rank. (Fyfe, Greene, Walsh, Wilson &
McLaren,1997)
A Criminal Justice Oral History
Interview
At
this juncture I would like to focus on retired Sergeant Marc Trundle who has
served most of his thirty-five year police career in the position of
Sergeant. He recently retired from the
Tallmadge Police Department in Tallmadge, Ohio.
I will begin this interview by having Sergeant Trundle take us through
his life prior to police work, how he first got involved in the police
profession, and then finally, his opinion about what makes a great Sergeant – both in
terms of what the administration thinks and the subordinate officer. Hopefully we can adequately address what
management style or combinations of styles are best. Here is the first in a two-part
interview:
Interview: Part One
Interviewer: Hello, my name is Frank DiMenna. Today I have the pleasure of interviewing
retired City of Tallmadge Police Sergeant Marc Trundle. We will be talking about his 35 year plus
career with the City of Tallmadge Police Department most of which he served in
the capacity of first-line supervisor – Sergeant, how police supervision has
changed over that time, and some of the roles, duties, functions of the police
Sergeant. Marc thanks for being a part
of the project.
Marc
Trundle: Happy to do it.
Interviewer: First, let’s start at the beginning even
before you actually got into law enforcement.
Can you tell me a little about your family and where you grew up?
Marc
Trundle: Yeah, I was born in Akron and
then about age five my family moved to Kent…and from age five through high
school …that’s where I grew up…went through the Kent City schools …graduated
from Kent Roosevelt High School in 1971 and went directly out of High School …I
went to work…it was my first…the direction I headed. School was something for me…I can’t say
something I enjoyed…not the highlight of my life like it is for some people…I
was there because I had to be. So when I
graduated from High School I didn’t really have a burning desire to go right to
college. I was always a decent student…I
think I held a B average but I was kind of a lost kid…I didn’t know what my
interests were…I didn’t know what direction I wanted to go. My parents really wanted me to go to
college. They were both children of the
depression and they didn’t have a chance to go to college and it was their
dream that I should or would someday and I was a little bit of a disappointment
to them because that wasn’t the direction I was interested in going when I go
out of High School…so I went to work. I
had had a lot of jobs as a kid but my first real job out of High School was
working for Pizza Hut. So I was flinging
pizzas for a living…eventually working my way up the ranks there…I was an
assistant manager and so forth and from there…after a couple years of doing
that I came to the conclusion that this is not what I wanted to do for the rest
of my life
.
Interviewer: Right.
Marc
Trundle: So, really I was kind of…I guess my outlook on things…the
way my belief was…not having come from a family where people had been to
college I was always under the impression that you had to be a four point
student to go to college. And I just…I
guess probably lacking a little confidence at a young age…wasn’t sure I was
college material. So, as it turned out
there was a gal that worked with me…who I had a relationship with and most of
the people who worked at the Pizza Hut were Kent State students…and this girl
kind of encouraged me…you know…what are you doing here? You can’t do this the rest of your life…what
are you going to do?...and I said I don’t really know. I am not real sure what I’m interested in…and
I said I don’t know if I’m really cut out for college and she says well what
kind of grades did you get in High School?
Well I told her and she says well you got better grades than I did…you
know…there is no reason in the world you can’t go…and so…I started to think
about…well, what am I interested in…so I always had an interest
in outdoors and hunting and fishing and that kind of thing so I thought perhaps
forestry or something might be of interest…but as I looked into that I found
that the jobs were far and few between and in this part of the country…very
scarce…you have to go out West where the large parks are…the Federal lands to
find employment. The other thing I kind
of had an interest in and it started actually through law enforcement explorer
scouts when I was in Middle School or what we called Junior High School…there
were a number of local officers in the Kent area who had established a law
enforcement explorer post and they recruited kids…you know…thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen age bracket and I got involved in that and I really enjoyed it…it was
very interesting…and so anyway…I was thinking here…I am eighteen and I always
enjoyed that kind of thing…the law enforcement explorers and of course at the
time the Federal Government was sponsoring LEAP grants and LEAA grants …there
was a lot of hiring going on and I thought this might be a field I may…should
look into…something of interest. So this
gal that I knew kind of encouraged me…let’s check into this…and long story
short we went down to the University of Akron and I checked into their program
there and I actually went down and sat in on a couple of classes at the U…and
it really interested me and I thought…well, now I
know why I would be going to school and this really is interesting…I didn’t
just want to go to school and not have any idea of why I’m there…but this is
something that interests me…so that’s why I went the direction that I did.
Interviewer: Did you know any officers at the time or did
you bump into…was there anybody particular or maybe a certain department that, you know…you got to know…you know…you observed…where
you sort of went…yeah, now this is really starting to look like
something…
Marc
Trundle: Yeah…through the Explorer Post
of course I got to know some of the officers from Kent and Ravenna which were
kind of the two agencies who were sponsoring this Post and then once I got
involved at the University I had to do some ride-a-longs…
Interviewer: Oh, ok.
Marc
Trundle: So then I went to Ravenna
primarily and I rode with them for quite a bit and then they also had an
internship as part of the criminal justice program…so I spent…I think it was
like two months with Stow. So, and that
was like a full-time gig…they plugged me right in and I rode on all the
different shifts and spent time in the Detective Bureau, time in the radio room
and so forth and then I really did get to know these guys personally…and it
just all the more peaked my interest.
Interviewer: How old were you about then?
Marc
Trundle: Well by the time I was doing
that in the internship program I was probably twenty…something like that.
Interviewer: What did your family think about your
interest in…
Marc
Trundle: (Laughs) Well, I think kind of
hot and cold. My dad was in the banking
field and I think he kind of always hoped I would go that direction…but they
were pretty supportive…they said whatever it is that you want to
do…whatever…you are going to be doing this for a long time…you know…whatever
your career choice is make sure this is something you are going to enjoy.
Interviewer: Right.
Marc
Trundle: And so, they were of course
like all parents…concerned about the danger involved in the job and so forth…I
think they were happy that I finally found something that I was really getting
my teeth into…delighted that I was going to college…so they were supportive.
Interviewer: That’s good.
Well, how did you decide or when did you…when did the City
of Tallmadge come up in terms of an opening or…
Marc
Trundle: Well, that was kind of a
fluke…once I had reached…of course you couldn’t do anything until you’re
twenty-one…so once I reached age twenty-one and I was just about finishing up
the Criminal Justice Program at Akron…I just started taking as many Civil
Service Exams as I could…and of course in that day we didn’t have the
Internet…we didn’t have computers to research any of this stuff…I went to the
library and got telephone books from all over the area…looked up the addresses
of police departments and found their Civil Service Commissions and just sent
letters out that I was interested in taking the first available Civil Service
Exam…and could you please notify me…and they did. The very first test I ever took was in
Englewood, Colorado…on a fluke…my buddy and I flew out to Englewood, Colorado
and took this test…and I look back on it now and it’s kind of funny…because
here I am this twenty-one year old kid and I show up to take this test and I’m
from out of state…but you know they were very nice…very gracious…and they
worked with me because I was from out of state.
They let you take the test and scored it that very same day and allowed
you to take an oral interview that very same day because they knew I couldn’t
commute back and forth. So I took the
test…first one I had ever done…you know I couldn’t tell you now what the grade
was…I passed it but I wasn’t no…stellar results out of this thing…and of course
at the time you’re competing against veterans who in many cases had twenty
percent bonuses tacked right on top of this test…so it was tough to compete…and
so I got my interview later in the day with the command staff and they were
very nice and they said you know for your first test you did a real good
job…they were looking at my grades…I gave them my transcripts and
everything…they said it looks very good…your background and everything…you’re a
good candidate for some police department but to be honest with you as far as
this went you haven’t scored high enough where you’re really going to be in the
running because they were only going to hire a few people and there are a lot
of people ahead of you and we’re probably going to be taking somebody else from
the test but don’t get discouraged…we encourage you to keep trying…something
will fall in place for you.
Interviewer: All these tests you took…you know now it
seems like we put a notice out for a test and we might get less than one
hundred people…back in the day was it about the same or…
Marc
Trundle: Oh no…it was absolutely the
opposite. There were hundreds and
hundreds of people who would show up just to take a test whether there was a
position available of not. This was in
the early seventies…we were going through a recession then…jobs were scarce and
people were really hungry for these tests…and I took Civil Service Exams all
over Ohio…in fact, the very first one that resulted in a job was Lima,
Ohio. And, it was just one of many I had
taken. I had taken Tallmadge’s and a
whole bunch of tests and Lima was the first one to call me. So, I went over to Lima…went through the
interview and things seemed to go ok and I came home and Lima calls back…like
to talk to you again…I went back over to Lima…so we did this several times and
finally I got a job offer. I didn’t know
the first thing about Lima, Ohio…completely foreign to the area…it’s just South
of Toledo…so I picked up stakes and packed up my 71’ Volkswagen and all my
worldly belongings and drove over there…in fact, I
had to start very quickly…there was no time to fool around here so I end up
getting a room at the YMCA. It was a
temporary place to stay until I could find someplace to live. And so, I started on day shift in Lima, Ohio.
Interviewer: I didn’t know that.
Marc
Trundle: Yeah. In those days it was done entirely
different…now when we hire someone we send them to an academy and they have to
have the various certifications…this is before we would ever dream about
putting them in a car…and then they have a formal FTO program…there was none of
that…they said here’s a gun, here’s some gear, put on this uniform and let me
go out. Of course they were smart enough
not to let me do this alone…I was always with somebody…but I started riding with
an officer…and first thing they want to do is…have you ever shot a gun? And I said, well yeah I have. And they said well we’re going to have you go
down…your partner is going to take you down to the range…the range officer will
be down there and we’ll see what you can do...you’re going to fire some type of
qualification…at least a familiarization.
Well, I had always been a firearms person and reloaded my own
ammunition…so this was nothing new to me.
So, this fire arms instructor doesn’t know me of course from Adam so I
proceed to start shooting and I’m firing a nice tight little group and my
partner is kind of looking…and finally my partner says I think he ought to be
teaching you how to shoot. (Laughing)
So, I passed the test…so I knew how to shoot…so they put me out on the
street with this partner and I worked day shifts and got right into some stuff
over there…it was kind of a rough town…they had their own Black Panther Party
chapter there…it’s where Lima had the insane asylum hospital where we had
runaways from there. It’s a tough little
town…they’ve had any number of officers killed in the line of duty…and I was
only there about six weeks…and you know I was happy…I wasn’t making…it was
terrible…I think it was $373 every two weeks.
In fact, I was making more money at the Pizza Hut than I was
making as a police officer…just because I was working a lot of hours at the
Pizza Hut. So anyway out of the clear
blue I get a call from home and my mom says well…did you take a test in
Tallmadge?...and I said, well yeah a long time ago…well, they just called and they want you to come in for an
interview. And I said, well I’ve got a
job…and she says well I think you ought to give them a call anyway. So, I did…and the Chief at the time says when
you coming back into town?...and I said well probably on the weekend…on my days
off…and he said we’d like to have you stop in for an interview…so I did and
that’s when the police department was in the circle there in that little
building. So, I came in for this interview
and it was kind of a general asking questions and so forth…it seemed to go
ok…they thanked me…I left and went back to Lima. Well, I get another phone call…like to talk
to you again…so I go back in and come back home on my next available day off
and now I can tell by the series of questions it’s getting a little more
serious…and I told them I was kind of taken aback by this…I wasn’t expecting
this at all…I said I’ve kind of relocated now…that things are going well for
me…they said well we understand all that but have you seen our pay scale?...and
they threw it out in front of me…well at the time I was making about $8,300 a
year in Lima…and to start in Tallmadge
it was $11,600. I mean it was a huge
difference…and they said you know that is a considerable difference in pay,
this is a much nicer community, it’s closer to your mom and dad, your home turf
here where you grew up…there are a lot of benefits to this one. And they said we don’t have a position right
now…council is expected to pass legislation…an ordinance allowing us to hire
another person…and I said you know I feel I owe these people kind of a notice
but…do I have a guarantee that I have a job here? And they said well council will…we’re sure
will pass this…and I said I hate to turn in a notice for one job unless I know
that for sure I’ve got something to go to in case there would be some last
minute fowl up…and I said can I get some type of guarantee?...well, no we can’t really guarantee anything…so now I am
kind of really torn…what do I do? I mean
I am just taking these people at their word.
So, I said well I guess I’ll take the big gamble…so I said ok…they made
the offer so I elected to accept…at the time there was another officer that I
knew who had just got hired here…he had just been hired with Tallmadge…we knew
each other from back in our Explorer days…I think they started working on
him…hey, you get a hold Trundle and say he needs to be here…so I get a call
from him…hey, they really want you. So,
I thought all right…I had to go back to Lima and tell my supervisor here that
I’ve only been there for six weeks and…you know I’m going to have to turn in my
resignation. And the partner I was
working with was a good guy and before I said anything officially I ran it by
him…I told him what had happened and he said, “They’re paying you how
much?” And I said well its $11,600 to
start and he said, “Are they hiring anybody else?” (Laughing)
“Are they taking anymore applications?”
He said take it and don’t look back…he said I would never say this when
you were in training but this place is really messed up and a nice department
like that making that kind of money…he said “go” don’t worry…so, that’s what I
did and there was a Sergeant that I worked for…one day shift supervisor who
wasn’t too happy about it but I said I’ve got to do what’s best for me and I
would have never taken this job if I knew this was going to happen but this
kind of took me completely by surprise…I wasn’t expecting it at all…so I came
to Tallmadge. And that’s how I got started
here.
Interviewer: That’s how you got started. Well, once you started, like you said, I’m
assuming they didn’t have a Field Training Program…they just sort of gave you,
like you said, they gave you a badge and a gun and…did you ride with
somebody for a while?
Marc
Trundle: Yeah, well before we did
anything…myself and the person I mentioned before and Chief (name omitted)…all
three of us were hired off of the same list…we all went to the Akron Police
Academy. We all started in the Fall…we
had whatever it was…three months of training at the Akron Police Academy before
we ever worked the road. And when we
came back here they split us up and we went to different shifts and we all just
kind of rotated between days to nights to afternoons…a round robin until
everyone got a chance to feel us out and felt we were ready to be turned out on
our own.
Interviewer: If you remember back when you first started
compared to when you just retired this past couple of years…how have the types
and I guess the different volume of calls changed since you first started? Has there been a big difference?
Marc
Trundle: In some respects. Probably most people today would find it hard
to believe that I think we were busier then.
The types of calls were different then.
We used to have a lot more accidents…it would be nothing to handle two
or three rather severe crashes on a shift.
That was very commonplace. And we
had a lot of burglaries. And at that
time I can’t really explain that one other than perhaps it was due to the drug
use those days because we were coming right out of the era of the sixties, the
Vietnam War, everybody was getting high…you know, “tune in, turn on, drop
out”…you know everybody was doing it…LSD, you name it they were in to it. And there was a lot of drug use…and I think
as a spin-off of all that we had a lot of house burglaries and commercial
burglaries…and again each shift you could count on at least a couple of
residential burglaries and when you worked midnights almost every night some
place in town got broken in to. And we
used to catch a lot of burglars on midnight shift because at the time the
alarms were all hardwired into dispatch…and the instant that alarm went off
dispatch dispatched the call and we would arrive when the guy was still in the
building and we used to catch a lot of burglars.
Interviewer: Speaking about training now…can you tell me a
little about the training you’ve had…I know that over thirty-five years you’ve
probably had a lot of training but…you know, you’ve
had some specialized training too, not just
the academy…do you remember what some of the specific…
Marc
Trundle: Well, as you say…that’s sort of
a lot of certificates in the file…
Interviewer: Well, I know you can’t name them all…I just
thought maybe some of the specific…you were a member of SWAT for a while…so you
had that specialized…
Marc
Trundle: You know there were certain
basic training requirements I think they wanted everyone to have…they wanted
everyone to have basic accident investigation school…and I remember going down
to the Ohio State Highway Patrol Academy for that…that was kind of a
standard. They used to have a patrol
tactics school down at OPOTA…most everyone went to that…it was a couple weeks
long…I spent some time in the Detective Bureau so I’ve got kind of the block of
instruction in investigation…with criminal investigation and that was a
grueling one at the time…I can remember you were down there for about a month
for that…and a month at OPOTA is like ten years. (Laughing)
Then, of course, once I got promoted then I started getting schooling
along the supervisory track…first line supervision, discipline procedures and
that kind of thing. At some point when I
took over the firearms…you know I was spending some time going to the various
firearms schools, armory schools, and became a member of what they called the
International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors. Got to go to a couple of schools out of
state…one down in Florida…one out in Arizona…like a big training conference…nationwide…actually
international for firearms instructors.
And then kind of got into the SWAT thing…just through there…now
Tallmadge didn’t send me there, that was under the
budget of the SWAT Team…and went to various schools depending on what I was
doing there…started as just your basic door kicker and was a sniper…so I went
to the Marine Corps Scout Sniper School…their sniper school in Texas and some
firearms instructor schools there and I eventually end up being the assistant
commander on the team…so there again, kind of
went more toward management…the managing of critical incidents for the SWAT
Team…so, it was kind of interesting…went to a lot of different
training in a lot of different areas.
Interviewer: So, you’re an officer for some period of
years and then at some point you decide…hey, I’m going to try to make the leap
to supervision…now you want to get promoted to Sergeant…first of all when did
you…how many years were you here…
Marc
Trundle: Not long…the very first…this is
kind of a story…the first supervision or Sergeant’s position that came
available…I want to say was in about 1978…79…so I had only been on about four
years, which is not much time to become a Sergeant.
Interviewer: Relatively speaking, sure.
Marc
Trundle: And I started when I was
twenty-two, so that meant I was only about twenty-six years old…well, they offer a Sergeant’s test…well, everybody takes the test…so this was kind of an
interesting one…so we took the test and just before this test was given…within
probably a year of this the City of Tallmadge enacted performance appraisals…we
never had a performance appraisal before then and so one day apparently the
Civil Service Commission tells the police department that all the departments
in the city are going to have these performance appraisals…you need to fill
these out on your people. So the Chief
hands these out to the Sergeants and says “here, they don’t mean anything,
don’t worry about them, but you’re going to have to give these guys a
grade”…and it was in real generic form with about four or five different
categories…about basic work habits and thorough report writing and it was
pretty comical…it was a joke. But these
various Sergeants did this…now they never had any real training on how to do
it…there was never…like we do now…we sit down with the supervisors and try to
come up with everyone being scored fairly…it was just…you fill out your
guys…you fill out your guys…well, your grade pretty much depended on who you
had the luck of the draw…who you worked for.
There was one Sergeant on midnights…he graded all his people ninety-five
and above…I was unfortunate…I worked for one Sergeant on afternoon shift…his
grades always ranged from seventy-five to eighty-five and anywhere in
between…just depending on the luck of the draw…so anyway, they were told don’t
worry about these things they will never amount to anything. Well, we take the first Civil Service Exam
and as it turned out myself…you want me to mention names…no?
Interviewer: (Laughing)
Marc
Trundle: Another patrol officer and I
scored the exact same score…number one…top score…it also just happened to
be…that officer and I…when we were initially hired…walked into the Mayor’s
office to be sworn in at the exact same time and took the oath of office
together. When they averaged the scores
out they said, “we got a problem we need to break this tie – who’s the senior
guy?”. Well, we were sworn in the very
same time…the same day…well, there’s those
performance appraisals…well, it so happened the
other officer worked for someone who graded high and I worked for the Sergeant
who graded low…so when they did the final tallying up of scores…his performance
appraisal…his final score on the Sergeant’s exam was three-one-hundredths of
one point higher than mine…and I was really upset (laughing)…when I knew I had
been beaten by the system…I mean, if I had
been beaten fair and square because he got a higher raw score than I did…ok…he
won…but to think that stupid appraisal was what broke the thing…and they were
done so unfairly…so, long story short I went and hired an attorney and went to
battle over this. Well, the city has no
choice but to dig in their heels and say we’re satisfied this is a fair system
and the scores remain as they stand. And
my attorney sent some letters back and forth and it was going to be one of
these things…it was going to be a legal battle and I’m twenty some years old…I
don’t have the money to fight this thing on my own…we didn’t have labor council
then…we didn’t have a union then…it was all coming out of my pocket and I
thought you know what…I can’t do this…so anyway, he got promoted…I didn’t. And a couple years went by and of course
more vacancies came up and so I took the next test and the second time around
scored second on the test and there was one promotion made immediately and
before the list expired…I mean just before the list expired another Sergeant
retired and that’s when I got promoted…which was 1983…
Interviewer: 1983?
So, how long were you Sergeant over the period of thirty-five years
then?
Marc
Trundle: From 1983 to 2010.
Interviewer: Now, during that period when you’re
Sergeant…did you ever have times where you said…boy I really regret…(laughing)…
Marc
Trundle: (Laughing) Every day! Oh yeah.
There were…and it was challenging when I first made Sergeant because I
was thirty years old when I made Sergeant…I had seven years on…and at that time
there were a lot of senior patrolmen…some of the more colorful characters in
this police department who were still working here during that era…and I’m
thirty years old trying to supervise guys who were forty-five…fifty years old
and they’re looking at me like this wet behind the ears young punk Sergeant is
not going to tell me what to do. So, it was very challenging and I had the support, I think, of the
administration and I didn’t want to alienate anyone but still I had to send the
message…like it or not guys I got to run this shift…so I had to write some
people up and one guy got suspended and we butted heads and there were little
power struggles here and there but that didn’t last too long…you know everybody
settled down and realized this is the way it is and it was ok from then on.
Interviewer: When you did get promoted…at the time did
they send you to any schools or special training for supervision or…
Marc
Trundle: Yeah…they made a point to get
you first-line supervision school and after some time I went to PELC, so I had
that too…
Interviewer: PELC is the Police Executive Leadership
College?
Marc
Trundle: Yeah.
Interviewer: What kind of duties did you have as Sergeant
then…like you said it was challenging at first and you went through a period of
time…what are some of the duties that you…
Marc
Trundle: Well, right off the bat…at one
time or another I probably did everything but right off the bat…right out of
the chute when I made Sergeant I just assumed the duties of the person I
replaced and that person at the time was in charge of the Auxiliary (Police)
and he did payroll…so I just took over and he trained me to do the payroll for
the police department and also the Auxiliary and then as time went on other
people retired and I did extra job scheduling and…oh gosh…it seemed like
everything and they kept shifting duties around re-delegating the different
things to different people…yeah, the payroll was my
first step into management.
Interviewer: Now at some point you decide, if I remember
correctly, you decide I’m going to maybe even take another step up the
promotional ladder…can you talk about that a little bit?
Marc
Trundle: Well, I first made Sergeant in
’83 and then in ’86 they did some restructuring and they were going to come up
with a Lieutenant’s position, which was something new, and they offered a
promotional test…they were going to offer a Lieutenant and a Sergeant…so I took
the Lieutenant’s exam…and again it didn’t go smoothly (laughing). A firm was brought in to create this test and
it was different because there was a lot of essay involved and this in-basket
exercise and so forth…so I went through this exercise with everyone else and as
it turned out I was the number one scorer on the Lieutenant’s test and another
officer scored first on the Sergeant’s exam and when people start…we found out
that the person who was the administrator of this test…this firm, apparently had done a very shoddy job with the way
they had scored things and, graded the test, so on and so forth…well, a couple
of individuals…one of which wanted to be a Lieutenant…one who wanted to be a
Sergeant hired an attorney…once again…here we go…filed suit to try to get this
thing thrown out and a new test administered.
Well, at that point the police department was in kind of a bind…they
needed a Lieutenant…they needed a Sergeant…and we didn’t know how long this was
going to take…this case whether it was going to end up in court…nobody knew…to
get this thing ironed out…could be an extended period of time…could be
protracted…so the Chief said…went to council and said look I’d like to create a
couple of temporary or acting positions for acting Sergeant and acting
Lieutenant to get us through this period and once we know how these suits turn
out we’ll go from there. So, that’s what
they did…since I was the number one scorer I became the acting
Lieutenant…another individual became the acting Sergeant. So, then I had an opportunity to move into
the administration rather than first-line supervision…
Interviewer: And was administration…that type of work…was
that something you were actually interested in sticking with or…
Marc
Trundle: Well, I found out in real short
order that that was not something I was interested in…here it was ’86…you know
thirty-three years old and looking at the potential that I’m going to be doing
this for twenty more years or more and I always…one of the things that
attracted me to law enforcement in the first place was…being outside and being
out on the streets…doing police work and interacting with people and I’m
sitting in this office working on a budget, working on a schedule, shuffling
papers, flying a desk, and I thought this is not why I…this is exactly why I
did not want an office job. And of
course then you have all the additional headaches that go along with that and
then there were a couple of other little twists to this…I was told, well, you are going to be
making X number of dollars when you assume this acting position…well, when I got my paycheck I was making less than I was
as a Sergeant and I thought there has to be a mistake here so I talked to the
Chief and he said, well that’s not what they told me over in City
Hall…something’s not right…you better go over and talk with them and find out
what is going on…so I did…I went over to City Hall and talked to the people
there…well, we can only go by what the ordinance says and what City Council
passed for this position and that’s the rate of pay. And I said wait a minute…so you’re telling me
I lost my overtime pay, I lost my holiday pay, I lost my longevity, I’m taking
on more responsibility, I have more headaches and I’m taking a pay cut? They said well that’s the way it is. So, that
didn’t set real well with me…not being into downward mobility…
Interviewer: Right.
Marc
Trundle: So, then I also find out that the Chief of Police at the
time was looking very seriously at taking a teaching or professor’s position at
the University of Akron…there was some kind of an opening down there…they were
looking at him as…a potential professor’s position…he was very interested in
it…and I start connecting the all dots thinking I could find myself in a
position where I’m thirty-three years old and in charge of this police
department and I knew nothing about administration…and it was going to be
dropped in my lap if he leaves and even if he stays I’m going to be taking a
pay cut…and even if it all works out and I get a pay increase I’m still doing a
job that I don’t really care that much for and probably have to do it for over
twenty more years. And I thought…I’m young
enough…there will be another opportunity probably to move up…the timing on this
is all wrong…so I thought long and hard about it and I came in and informed
them…I think I’d really rather go back to being a Sergeant…turned in the
Lieutenant’s badge…of course it kind of floored some people…
Interviewer: Went back out to the streets…
Marc
Trundle: Yeah, I went back to where I
was happy…so…
Interviewer:
Well, then later in your career now as you’re
getting…you’re getting close to the end of your career and you’re thinking…you
know there’s probably some times where some of these Lieutenant, Captain, and
even Chief, for that matter, spots made themselves available to you and you
thought…how did you feel…I mean…did you consider that at all?
Marc
Trundle: I never really had a burning
desire to be a Chief…but I thought that maybe I would move up maybe one more
level…and I tested for Lieutenant’s position…couple times actually…the one
time, again I really wasn’t that keen based on what was going on behind the scenes, but I took the test basically because if a couple of
us Sergeants hadn’t…the position would next go to a patrolman…I just wasn’t
going to watch that happen so a couple of us took it just to take it. The next time I really was interested in it
but I’m not sure what all the…a decision had to be made above as to who was
going to get the job…I think one of the things I had against me was because I
was a short timer at that point…I had less than three years of being
here…everybody knew it…it was no secret and you know they have to think long
term about the agency and what’s best in the long term and I really wasn’t the
guy who was going to be around here so…you know someone else got the job
instead.
Interviewer: Can you tell me a little bit…we talked about
SWAT…I know that was something that you really enjoyed…I remember talking to
you about that and obviously you were in charge or second in command for a
while…and also your involvement in what I guess you want to call Range Master
or in-charge of the range and so-forth…those are two positions that are…you
know, it’s additional responsibility for you but…can you
talk a little bit about that…about SWAT or about the range?
Marc
Trundle: Well, the range situation came
about…I was a fairly new Sergeant at the time…we had a range officer at the
time…I was sent to arms instructor school and so forth…got some training there
and this was kind of a little bit of an internal power struggle I guess…when I
came back and I knew I was going to have to work under the current range
instructor…and it became apparent to me that a lot of the things that were
being done were really behind the times…very outdated…left our agency and our
officers really in a bind…we would never stand the test of scrutiny…civilly or
legally based on what we were doing and what we were not doing…so I voiced my
concerns to the Chief at the time and I said I’m not trying to rock the boat
here…take anybody’s job and anything of the kind but…and I’ve tried to work
with the current arms instructor and he doesn’t seem to be receptive to what
I’ve brought back and I’m not sure we are meeting the needs of the agency and
so forth so he says let me think about this for a minute…well, at the time we were trying to run our own little
tactical team which was kind of a joke…yeah, in an agency this size it wasn’t
even feasible but we were making some effort to have some people doing that…so
the Chief at the time made the decision…I’m going to put Trundle in charge of
firearms instructor and I’ll put this other individual in charge of the
tactical team and we’ll split the duties…so, that’s the way that came
about. Then, as far as our involvement
in Metro SWAT that was something that was going on…I knew nothing
about…apparently the Chiefs of police in the entire area were in the same
predicament…there was a need for a tactical team…didn’t have the resources to
do it on their own…so there was a talk about regionalization here…maybe we
could create a multijurisdictional tactical team we could all participate
in…now this was something that was being done on the Chief’s level throughout
the county…and finally one day we received a memo…everyone in the police
department received a memo that they were going to form this new tactical
team…we need a couple of people who are going to represent Tallmadge…is anybody
interested? And, I really didn’t have
any SWAT background but I thought…I would be interested in that…and one of the
other officers here also had an interest…we were the only two who put in for
it…and they let us know this is a commitment you are making here…you’re going
to be on-call 24/7, you’re going to carry a pager, you might get called out in
the middle of the night, it’s going to
involve a lot of your personal time and so forth…we’ll compensate you…we’ll
provide your equipment…but there’s a time commitment…so he and I were the only
two who volunteered…so we were candidates for Tallmadge…
Interviewer: Well, looking back on your career…now we’re
talking thirty-five years…it’s probably hard to narrow it down to one or two
experiences, but do you have some memorable experiences you can try to
relate…you know some highlights of your career…
Marc
Trundle: Well, I’ve kind of taken some
notes here…of course what we just talked about…the up side…things I enjoyed
were those two things…the SWAT and the firearms training and so forth…the other
things that really stick out in your mind are the not so pleasant things…the
close calls that you’ve had…the various close calls…those things kind of stick
with you forever…so…yeah…I had a list of them…I remember an incident when I was
a young officer when I was working midnights…I only had a few years on the
job…there was a gun store up at Midway Plaza…it was getting burglarized on a
regular basis…it was kind of a smash and grab…they’d run in and grab as many
guns as they could and out the door they’d go and they’d hit the place a couple
of times…and at that time, as I mentioned earlier, direct alarms that went to
the police department…so our dispatch put out the call the instant the window
broke and we would get up there very quickly…well, this one night they came
back about the third time and as soon as we were given the alarm…I knew it was
a good one…and they’re back again and I just happen to be on West Ave…so
knowing full well that whoever is coming out of that building is going to be
well armed…I proceeded to take the shotgun out of the rack and racked a round
through the chamber…rolled the window down in the cruiser and kind of laid the
shotgun across my lap as I went up West Ave…as I got to about Thomas Road I
killed my lights and I come up and pulled into the back of Midway Plaza and
here comes a suspect…carrying a gun in one hand and a satchel full of guns in
the other hand and I kind of had him boxed in…because as you know it’s all
brick wall around the back and there’s really no place to go except straight on
down to Thomas Road…and as soon as I saw him I slammed on the brakes and just
shoved the shotgun out the window and screamed a number of choice commands to
him about what was going to happen to him if he didn’t freeze and he…I could
see the gun in his hand and I could tell he’s thinking about it and I’m
starting to tighten my finger on the trigger about ready to let him have it and
at the last minute he just laid down…and I had him spread eagle there…I didn’t
know how many people were likely involved so I got out of the car and I’m
trying to watch my back and keep him covered and then another officer…backup
officer arrives and I’ve got this guy spread eagle in the parking lot…this
other officer comes in with his headlights off and almost runs over this guy in
the lot (laughing)…the last minute he saw him and so anyway he was the only one
we got…the other guys took off out the front…we don’t know how many there
were…and it was kind of a real wakeup call…this guy we hooked him up…brought
him back to the station and Akron PD was having a bunch of burglaries at the
time and one of their detectives came out and said who do you have?...and I
told him…I remember this guy’s name to this day…he says holy mackerel you’re
lucky that guy…he’s a killer man…he’s been involved in a number of bank
robberies…we know he’s been involved in a couple of homicides…that we never
have been able to prove…but you’re lucky he didn’t shoot you. So while I’m booking this guy we’re talking
and…he’s a career criminal…he had one of those criminal histories you hold up
to the ceiling and drags on the floor and the guy spent half his life in
prison…and he says…man I thought you were going to shoot me…and I said, well, I
thought you were going to shoot me too…I said, you know how close you
came?...He said, well, I thought about it but when I saw that shotgun I said
Naaahhh…(laughing)…I decided not to…so thank God I had the gun out because I
think it may have had a different ending if I hadn’t. One of the first really bad traffic stops I
had was on West Ave…you know you’re always trained as a young guy…young
officer…no traffic stop is routine…and one of the things we used to do years
ago is that they would assign us to work a lot of radar every summer…it was as
soon as the daffodils would come up we were…guys were assigned to radar and we
spent a couple weeks assigned to working radar every day because the Chief was
real big on it. So, I was working radar
on West Ave and hadn’t up to that point had a real resisting…still young and
naïve…I see this car fly up West Ave and…going sixty and over and I pull out
and try to stop him and we get right up in front of what was Fazio’s grocery
store at the time…Giant Eagle now…this guy…I came up behind him and as soon as
he saw the overheads he just locked up the brakes and he had a little pickup
truck…I think it was a little Toyota with a cap on it…and in the back he had a
Doberman Pincer…and he locked up the brakes so fast I had to slam on my brakes
to stop from rear ending him…and I didn’t even have time to grab the mic or let
anyone know where I was or what was happening…he bailed out of that car and
he’s coming right along that truck and he’s coming right back on me…I didn’t
want to get caught in my car so jumped right out…and I mean just like that the
fight is on…we start duking it out and it’s about five on Friday night…there’s
cars everywhere on West Ave…and not a soul comes to help and I’m trying to
handle this guy…I was concerned that I don’t want to appear brutal…don’t want
to use excessive force… he was high on drugs…he was a little skinny guy…a wiry
guy but fighting like a hellcat…and from one point he broke loose from my grip
and he runs over to the cap and the back of it and he’s yelling at the
dog…”sick him”…”sick him”…now I had visions of being made a happy meal by this
Doberman if he got it out of there so I grabbed this guy and slammed him up
over the window to block this dog from coming out and fortunately…finally there
was an off-duty officer…and Akron officer who happened to be driving by and he
jumped out and come running over and a civilian…thank God he was a great big
guy…he says officer do you need some help?...(laughing)…I said, sure do!...and between the three of us we got him down on
the ground and got him under control and he was still trying to get a knife out
of his pocket to cut us…but it was a real eye opener…and I learned there is no
nice way to hit somebody…when you get into a fight…win! Do whatever it takes to win very quickly…when
you try to hold back for fear of looking brutal you’re going to get hurt. Another incident that was a big one for me
was the night that the guy came and opened fire on the front door of the police
department. A former Chief and I were
working together one night and a kaa-thud sound…we really couldn’t identify
what it was and then we realized that the whole front window’s gone…and we
thought at the time…we’re thinking somebody probably threw a rock or a brick or
something through the window…and we took off running out through the radio
room…out the front doors and…it was night shift and of course it’s dark out
there…it wasn’t landscaped the way it is now…and when we come out the door I’m
expecting to see some kid running…you know probably having thrown a rock
through the window and instead here’s a guy standing there with a twelve gauge
pump gun…and you know your mind…they talk about things kind of going slow
motion…and I’m thinking gun…broken window…oh, shit…this guy just shot the
window out and he’s…(making a sound like someone charging a shotgun)…and he’s
ready to let us have it…and it just seemed like it took forever for me to reach
down there and get my gun out of the holster and get up on him…and the other
officer was doing the same thing…again…lucked out…the very last second he threw
the gun down and I tackled him…we got him handcuffed…he had all kinds of shells
in his pocket…he just kept yelling, “Go ahead and kill me!”…”Kill me, I don’t
care, kill me!”…his intent…I think was to die…he wanted a suicide by cop and I
think he just got cold feet at the last minute…
Interviewer: That was close…
Marc
Trundle: …and if we had gone out just
instantly I think he may have done it but there was a little bit of a time
delay because we were looking at each other…like what was that noise…I think it
gave him just long enough to start thinking about it…do I really want to go
through with this…he lost his nerve when he saw us coming and dropped the gun. I have others but I don’t know how many you
want…
Interviewer: No, go ahead that’s fine.
Marc
Trundle: I went out to…with a juvenile
officer…to arrest a juvenile on (street name omitted) one time…the guy pulled a
knife on us…fortunately the officer I was with had extremely fast reflexes and
close and able to dive and get a hold of this kids arm and the two of us were
able to get the knife away from him…you know that was just a very routine
thing…some kid…he was just some problem kid…fourteen or fifteen years old and
we had to tell him…get dressed, you know, we’re going to have to take you to
Dan St. (Juvenile Detention Center), and he just reaches into a door and says,
“I’ll do it!”…he comes out with a knife and, man, it’s on…just that quick…so
you realize how quickly these things can happen to you when you least expect
it…
Interviewer: And the decision you have to make in split
seconds…
Marc
Trundle: Do you shoot him? And, you
know, the reason it didn’t happen…because the officer I was with was so
quick…got on him and got a hold of his wrist and was able to kind of isolate
that knife and maintain control while he hung on for dear life I cut off this
kids air…and basically told him if you ever want to breathe again you’re going
to let go of that knife…and he did but…and he could have very easily wound up
getting us or we might have had to shoot him.
Then of course we had the individual with the knife on the circle…
Interviewer: Oh, I remember that…
Marc
Trundle: Remember that…probably the
closest I ever want to come to shooting somebody…it’s one of those…after it’s
all over you know you kind of run it through your head and think what did I do
right and what did I do wrong…If I had this again would I handle it
differently…and I think probably in some ways maybe I should have shot him
actually…because we allowed him…and we were trying to use a lot of
restraint…allowed him to walk all the way up to Tallmadge Circle with this
knife…and had he got up to the circle could have very easily forced his way
into somebody’s car…traffic was a complete standstill…he could have forced his
way into somebody’s car…taken a hostage…run into a business armed…if we had
shot at that point it would be very hard to do it at the circle without
endangering someone…
Interviewer: Right.
Marc
Trundle: Perhaps we should have shot him
when he was down on South West Ave.
Interviewer: You guys were able to subdue him, as I
recall, and cuff him up and then something interesting happened back at the PD
right after that…
Marc
Trundle: Yeah, well when he got up to the
circle we had just about exhausted all of our less-lethal options at that
point…we had emptied multiple cans of OC spray in his face…it had no effect on
him…just painted his face with it…it had no effect…and when we got up to the
circle I grabbed an ASP…a collapsible baton…and one of the other officers
distracted him…kind of got close to him…in his face and yelled at him and held
his attention and I came up from behind the guy…and what I wanted to do was hit
him across the top of the shoulder and hopefully incapacitate the…make him drop
the knife…well, as it turned out…you know I swung for everything I was worth in
an overhand strike…and he heard me…and he kind of turned and I hit him more
across the back really…so, he didn’t drop the knife but I got in one good blow
and I think that kind of…it staggered him…he kind of…knocked the wind out of
him and staggered him and so anyway shortly thereafter he gave up…well, of
course the scene out there was pretty much chaos…there were police cars out
there from all over the place because, of course, we had put out a signal
twenty-one…officer needs help…we had officers coming from other departments and
so forth…well, before we could even get the traffic jam cleared up there was
somebody in the lobby wanting to file a complaint…he was demanding to speak
with the Chief because he watched…he watched an officer just brutally beat this
poor guy with a stick in the middle of Tallmadge Circle and the guy hadn’t done
anything to deserve this…(laughing)
Interviewer: (laughing)…I remember that…
Marc
Trundle: Yeah.
Interviewer: Obviously he didn’t know the whole story…
Marc
Trundle: Well, he had no idea what had
led up to this…he knew one fraction in the time frame…what he saw, which was
not very accurate and I think they very politely explained to him you missed
the rest of the story…and apparently you didn’t see the knife in the guy’s hand
when he tried to stab the officers…well, the guy kind of tucked his tail
between his legs and that was the end of his complaint…it ended right there.
Interviewer: Go ahead, do you have another one?
Marc
Trundle: Oh yeah, yeah I had an incident
on (street name omitted) one of our…at the time was one of our local drug
dealers…and there was kind of a drug party going on at a house…and one of the
people there in attendance decided he had been ripped off and he was going to
kill him…and the mother of this kid…there was a whole house full people
including the mother and so forth, so we get this frantic 911 call…we need the
police here there’s a guy with a gun.
So, I was the first on scene…I can hear all this screaming and yelling
going on in the house…so I run up on the porch…as I go through the door…here’s
a guy with a .357 pointed across the living room at this individual who I knew
very well saying I’m going to kill you…and this kid’s mother is standing in the
way…acting as a shield saying…”Don’t shoot my baby…Don’t shoot my
baby!...Please don’t kill him!”…and this guy says get out of the way I’m going
to kill him…and here I am and there’s people all around and…again, one of these
split second…do I take him out instantly or not…and, again one of those where
you kind of think about…did I do this thing right or not…I was taking a chance
by holding my fire because he could have very easily shot the mother, the guy,
hit an innocent person…but I gave him some verbal commands…”Drop the gun…Drop
the gun now or I am going to shoot!”…and fortunately he did…
Interviewer: He did…
Marc
Trundle: Yeah, but it was kind of a
tense moment…
Interviewer: Another close call…
Marc
Trundle: Another close call…one of the
best pursuits I ever had started In Mogadore and into Tallmadge and back into
Mogadore…we end up going down (State Route) 224…I think there were about seven
or eight police cars that got wrecked…in the process from various
jurisdictions…and this was kind of a Smokey and the Bandit type chase…I got in
front of the guy and he was ramming me from behind and we finally got him boxed
in and while I was in front of him another officer from Springfield hit the guy
in the rear of this pickup truck and knocked him up on top of my trunk lid…and
that was lodged that way and then the back wheels of his truck were off the
ground on the hood of the car behind…on the cruiser so he couldn’t get
anywhere…so we thought great…you know we got him now…
Interviewer: He’s done…
Marc
Trundle: He’s done…it’s over…well, then
another cruiser comes screaming up there…lost his brakes…his brakes faded…hits
the cruiser…hits the behind…hits the suspect vehicle and knocks the truck down
off the cruisers and the guy’s still in the vehicle and he pulls out…goes
around all the cruisers and he’s off and running again…so, here we’ve got OSP,
Springfield, Mogadore, Tallmadge, Portage County Sheriff’s Department, I mean
there were all these agencies involved in this thing and now we’re running down
East in pursuit again on 224…and I was in the lead because I was the first one
back to my car…and this just had been going on…it was a long, long chase and I
thought someone’s going to die here…this is a time where you got to do what you
got to do to bring this thing to an end…so as it turned out this guy made a
left hand turn going North on (S.R.) 43…and when he did I made a left…got up
beside him and just rammed him and knocked him off the road and into a
ditch…into a telephone pole…that finished it for sure…
Interviewer: Seven or eight cruisers…(laughing)…
Marc
Trundle: Many cars later…so, we come
back with this parade of mashed up cars and we’re trying to explain to the
Chief how all our cars got smashed up (laughing)…this was of course before the
days of pursuit policies (laughing)…
Interviewer: Right, that’s probably why we have a pursuit
policy…(laughing)…
Marc
Trundle: (Laughing) So, I’ll let it go
at that…but yeah those were the good old days…
Interviewer: Let me ask you this…do you miss it?
Marc
Trundle: Parts of it…I miss the
people…you know the camaraderie with the guys and that kind of thing…but as far
as the day to day dealing with the knuckleheads…I don’t miss that part of it at
all…
Interviewer: You’ve had enough of that?...(laughing)
Marc
Trundle: I did…and maybe I’ve heard
other officers I’ve talked to say oh I really miss it…maybe that depends on
what you’re doing…I know other people who have told me that…that guy was in administration…and
he was in an office and had a good shift…and you know life was good for him and
so I guess he kind of missed the position, the power, and the prestige of the
office and so forth…
Interviewer: He wasn’t a midnight Sergeant…
Marc
Trundle: But, he wasn’t a Sergeant
working on midnights dealing with smelly drunks and fighting with people and
having people spit on him and that kind of thing…
Interviewer: Have to sleep during the day and…
Marc
Trundle: Yeah, trying to sleep while
people are mowing their grass…(laughing)
Interviewer: (laughing) Well, what do you think are some
of the…you know, some of the qualities…do you think or that you associate with
a great Sergeant? You know…
Marc
Trundle: Well, I…some of the things that
came to mind is that you have to have a fairly good working knowledge of the
law I think…because you’re going to be applying it and people coming to you…the
people that work for you wanting your legal opinion on things…what should we do
here…what direction are we going with this and I think a good foundation of
both your city code, state law, and so forth…search and seizure or what have
you. I think you have to be able to
function under stress…sometimes that can be real difficult when into those
moments where the adrenaline’s pumping…you know decisions have to be made…but
you can’t get so caught up in the excitement of things that you’re not able to
think clearly and render good judgments.
I think a quality that a Sergeant needs to have…or one thing that they
should do is lead by example…you know you can lecture people on what they
should do…and what’s expected of them and so forth…you know you’re the walking
example of it and if you’re talking the talk but you’re not walking the walk
people are not going to respect you. You
have to be willing to set the example even when it’s not popular…and you have
to be able to work with people and I think relate to the troops…as we were
talking about earlier…as a Sergeant you’re in a unique position here…if you’re
in management then you can be strictly an administrative kind of guy and the
management thing…if you’re on the labor side…you’re a patrol officer basically
your full concern is basically just going out and doing the job itself…but when
you’re the Sergeant you’re kind of tiptoeing down that fine line between each
side…you have to have a certain amount of loyalty to each direction…management
has to feel as though…seeing that the shift is running as it should be and
discipline is being maintained…policies and procedures are being followed and
on the other side…the troops, you know their kind of counting on you to be the
boss here and show them the way and make the decisions and stand up for them
when necessary…so, you know you do find yourself in positions where you have to
enforce discipline and sometimes that’s not always popular with people but…you
try to be fair about it…and be able to relate to everyone…keep on good terms
with as many people as possible. You
know one of the things I remember a Captain at the time made the statement and
I think is very true is that…you know you’re not one of the boys anymore when
you sew on the stripes and that’s one of the toughest things I think for a new
Sergeant to get acclimated to because you’ve been a member in good standing
with the guys on your shift…or with all the guys at the police department…but
the day that you pin on the gold badge
and the stripes…you’re not one of them anymore…and that doesn’t mean that you
have to be aloof and swagger around…you know I’m the boss now…that won’t get
you much respect, that’s for sure…but by the same token, you’re not one of them
anymore and I think you have to create a certain amount of distance between
yourself and the rank and file…and they have to understand that…yeah…maybe we
went and drank beer together as buddies…and maybe we did some things we
shouldn’t have done (laughing)…you know…violated some rules and stuff back in
the day…but I’m the Sergeant now and I have a new role here and now you work
for me and I expect you to follow…follow the rules and listen to what I have to
say…we may not always agree but I will have the final say here…and I’ll
certainly take everyone’s opinion into consideration here…but I have final
say.
Interviewer: Well, you kind of touched on it…you know
police officers they sometimes form a close bond through just having timed
served together but also through some of the experiences that you talked
about…how do you decide…I’m going to try to get promoted…become a supervisor
and leave that group…now you know you’ve sort of gotten yourself into this
tightly formed group and you say…well, I’m going to move on and I know that now
I’m getting myself out of this group…what goes through your mind…is there
something in particular?
Marc
Trundle: Well, it’s…you know some guys
are interested in getting a promotion…sometimes I don’t think they take this
all into consideration when they’re…till they get this position…as to what this
is all going to mean…all it’s going to entail.
Interviewer: Do you find that…or have you found over the
years that the Sergeant’s form the same close bonds…just because of their
rank…the same rank…or is that something that…
Marc
Trundle: Between themselves?
Interviewer: Yeah…
Marc
Trundle: It’s kind of an individual
thing…just like in the patrolman’s ranks there are probably some you feel
closer to than others…as a patrol officer that you just click with…same thing
happens I think with Sergeants I think…I can remember times where there were
two different schools of thought about supervision…you had some real old school
people who resisted change and wanted no part in anything different other than
the way it had always been done and there were some younger Sergeants that were
in opposition to that…and there was a little friction that took place in this
room during staff meetings as to what direction this agency’s going and the way
we handle problems and issues and so forth.
Interviewer: You know with all the different…the…sort of
the eye of the media and now you have these action groups and of course now you
have the new technology where cameras are everywhere…how has that impacted us
as police officers and really how does it change how you work in terms of a
supervisor? A Sergeant…because now you
have this new level of accountability and it adds to your responsibility…did
you find that that played a role at all…was it something you thought about?
Marc
Trundle: Well, I think it’s kind of a
two edge sword. Certainly the dash cam
videos and so forth can be a good thing at times…but, then again it can destroy
you…it can end careers depending what is caught on film…it can give a very
distorted picture of what happened out there…because sometimes public opinion
is based on a little snippet of film on action news at eleven…it doesn’t tell
the whole story…what led up to this…what happened afterward…maybe the camera
angle didn’t catch everything…it may look entirely different from what they see
on the film as to what really transpired.
Quite honestly…I was not a big fan of the dash cams…I’m still not…I think
they have a place…they can be a good thing…but what always kind of bothered me
was being in the politically correct environment that we’re in these days…I
mean it can end a guy’s career…and I’m not saying that we should be…cover up
anything…illegal behavior, but you know policemen are human beings…and you can
have a guy who is a solid performer…professional…good police officer…given you
years of good service…and maybe he’s going through a bad time in his life…maybe
he’s in the midst of a divorce…who knows…and it could be any number of things
and then he happens to cross paths with some particularly obnoxious,
despicable, piece of crap out there on the street…and maybe he slips and he
says something…or this guy he just pushes all his buttons and maybe a struggle takes place and maybe this
officer lands a blow or punches him one time too many…maybe this guy richly
deserved it but it looks horrible on film…and now his career’s in jeopardy
based on something…you know maybe a split second event in his twenty-five year
career where he did or something that he really wishes he could take back…but
once it’s on film and it’s out there it could be a career ender. It also kind of annoyed me…I know our
prosecutors love for the OVI arrests to have all that video to have the
sobriety tests…again, if you have the drunk who is staggering…falling
down…vomiting on themselves…it’s great video…you know it’s going to get you a
conviction…but, then again, if you’re performing a field sobriety test and you
hold the stylus up here and you don’t hold it out at a particular angle or so
many inches from the face…it’s a little too close…or maybe your instructions
weren’t verbatim by the way you were trained…that’s all that defense attorney
needs to do is to get that field sobriety test thrown out based on some slight
error…and it ends up being the cop’s on trial instead of the suspect and I
don’t think that’s a good thing…in the interest of justice…I really don’t…
Interviewer: Talking about budgets…now that the economy’s
the big issue…money’s short…you know, Municipalities are struggling for
whatever reason…it results in lower staffing levels…and, you know how that
has…or has it affected you throughout your career…you know, in terms of
supervision…and just policing in general…I know we all struggle with minimum
staffing…you’ve probably gone through periods where there were just one or two
of you for the whole city…you know, how was that?
Marc
Trundle: Well, I think…of course
everybody is…whether it’s private sector or public sector…everybody is expected
to do more with less…and work smarter and so forth…and all that sounds good…and
I understand there are times when we have to tighten our belt…but, from our
experience here we went through the worst of those budget crunches …I think it
really grinds down morale in the long term when you have people who are working
with broken down equipment…broken down cruisers where they have to spend forty
hours a week plus overtime…that’s their office…when half the equipment in the
car doesn’t work and the car’s a death trap…and, you know you can’t get
training that you should have…you can’t get updated equipment that you need…it
has a way of…it’s more than just the dollars and sense…it’s what it does to the
overall morale and spirit of the whole agency. I can remember a time in here when we were
walking around on carpets…they had duct tape all over them…trying to hold them
together because they’re full of holes and it’s dangerous to catch your toe in
a hole and fall…the chairs had the arms falling off and that kind of thing…that
does affect the…as a supervisor it’s kind of hard to keep your people’s morale
up when you’re working under those kinds of conditions…
Interviewer: Well, have you found at all…and this is
something that I basically thought of…but is there a mentality among officers
that…hey, we’re so short in staffing it makes it a little dangerous on the
road…in terms of back-up and so forth…because we’re getting spread so thin…have
you ever found that maybe some officer’s think…hey, you know what…to be
safe…I’m just going to try not to get myself involved in anything…something
that’s going to put me in this kind of danger…you know, I just wanted to see if
you had an opinion about that at all…
Marc
Trundle: Well, I’ve heard that too…and I
have to say I think there is some merit to it…I mean we don’t want to say we’re
going to turn our backs on some criminal activity in front of us…
Interviewer: Sure…
Marc
Trundle: But, on the other hand, we
don’t have to go out and initiate things that are going to tie up our
shift…getting ourselves into situations where we don’t have enough people…we
don’t have enough resources here to deal with it all…and we still have…you know
the world doesn’t stop dead in its track because you make an arrest for…you
know, whatever…you stop some car and it’s got drugs in it…there are still
people out here having domestic fights, alarms, and whatever that have to be
dealt with…and I guess you have to prioritize calls and realize that, you know,
we don’t want three cars out on the expressway doing drug interdiction when we
are running our tails off here trying to keep up with calls for service…
Interviewer: Do you think that the effectiveness of the
Sergeant…the first-line supervisor…do you think gets measured by the effectiveness
of their subordinates? In other words,
how well your subordinates perform…how well they do…do you think that’s
a…carries over…
Marc
Trundle: You can maybe influence some of
that…and I guess if you go to some management schools they’ll try to put forth
the idea that the more effective Sergeant you are the more effective your
people will be and you’ll see statistically higher levels of activity…and I
don’t…I don’t think it’s that simplistic…a lot of what a person does when they
come to work…it’s in their heart…it’s where they’re at mentally…you know how
hard do they want to work…how motivated are they…a self-starter…if you happen
to be fortunate enough to be a Sergeant and you have a whole…surrounded by good
people who are go-getters you’re going to look like a hero…cause they’re going
to be out there busting it every night and making good arrests and doing what they’re supposed
to be doing…on the other hand if you have some problem children…who…you spend
half your life just trying to keep them in line…trying to motivate them…and you
can’t get them off dead center…you can be a good Sergeant, but if you look at
the numbers at the end of the month, year, or whatever it’s not going to look
all that impressive…so, I think a Sergeant…a supervisor can influence some
things but you can’t control it completely.
Interviewer: How does a Sergeant…we talked a little bit
about this before…how do you balance that loyalty between you and your
subordinates and that of your superiors…because it seems to me that that is going
to be one of the toughest to do because in order to get the subordinates to
respect you and actually get motivated to go out and do something there has to
be a good relationship there…and on the other hand…for you to get things for
your guys or for your line officers you’re going to have a good relationship
going the other direction…how do you…
Marc
Trundle: Absolutely…well, that can be a
real tough one at times…as we say…as a first-line supervisor you’re walking
that fine line between the two. You have
to handle some of these on a case by case basis…what’s going on…generally
speaking…at this agency I felt we had decent management most of the time and we
have a great staff of people and it was always a fairly easy thing to do…but
there were times…and I’m sure you are aware (laughing)…where as a supervisor…I
found myself in a position where I thought management was way out of line. We had an era where it seemed we had an
adversarial mentality coming from management…towards labor…and some people…a
sense where there was some vindictiveness going on…and certain people were
being singled out…and it was my way or the highway attitude and created a…I
mean you could see in a very short period of time the whole feeling inside this
building changed. And some people who
had been very, very good employees for many years…never caused a problem…always
did their job…are finding themselves being mistreated…and now grievances are
flying and disciplinary actions are coming down the pike towards people who
have never had a discipline…and at that point here you are as the
Sergeant…where do you align your loyalty to?
And, when this first happened in this particular era…I thought, well,
maybe we just have this new administration that’s feeling out their new found
power here and it will balance out in time…sometimes you get a new Sergeant and
he gets in there and he’s not comfortable with his new position and he comes on
a little…over supervises a little bit…and after they get mellowed out a little
bit and kind of get settled in their new job they strike that balance…well,
with this particular…during this particular era that didn’t seem to be
happening…and it went from bad to worse…so, here I am as a Sergeant
thinking…well, where are my loyalties here…if I am loyal to the administration
I’m going to be written off by all the people…I’m just one of them…and I’m
going to lose the respect of all those people and if I’m protective of my
people here I’m going to anger the administration and I’m probably going to pay
the price for that…and I kind of came to the conclusion that my first is not
here to management…my first loyalty is to the police department as a whole…and
to these people because you know what…I need those guys on the street a lot
more than I need those people along mahogany row. The people on the streets are the ones I’m
working with every night…my safety may depend on those guys and…
Interviewer: That’s a good point.
Marc
Trundle: They have to be there for me
and, frankly, I think some of them are being mistreated here…and, sorry to
say…first time in my career…I’m going to have to side with labor on some of
these issues and call the administration to task…and of course there was a
price to pay for that…but, I felt I’ll look myself in the mirror and I’ll feel
as though I did the right thing…and if some people on mahogany row aren’t
happy…so be it…I thought it was interesting…as a personal insight I…when I did
retire…I got a lot of cards from people and so forth and I got a card from one
of the employees here who was a long time employee who had really been run
through hell…with disciplinary action and so forth…and this person wrote me a
nice long note about how much they appreciated me going to bat for them and I
don’t know if it hadn’t been for what you did for me if I would have been able
to have gone on with this much longer but I really appreciated everything you
did…and I thought…that’s more of a thank you…that meant more to me than
anything I could have got in the way of a plaque (laughing) or anything or
watch from the City…because the people who are depending on you as their
supervisor…I guess they thought, you know, he’s got my back…that was the most
important thing…
Interviewer: In terms of Sergeants, in general, do you
think there are different styles of managers…and can you talk about what you’ve
seen…
Marc
Trundle: Well, I kind of touched on it a
little bit…there’s different types of Sergeants…there are some that are very
autocratic…by the book kind of mentality…that doesn’t sit well with policemen. It just doesn’t go over very well…and
sometimes I think it’s young or newly promoted Sergeants who haven’t spread
their wings yet…haven’t found their way and their not real comfortable with the
new position and their power and their role and they overdo it a little bit…but
nothing will alienate people more than some guy who just gets promoted and
starts coming on strong and expecting people…you know, enforcing rules that he
never followed when he was a patrolman two weeks ago and now being a real by
the book kind of guy…you can over supervise…and I think that’s a fine line as a
Sergeant…you have to know…you need to be there at different times on a call or
in different situations…but sometimes just take a back row seat and let your
people do their job…you know…as a Sergeant you get to know your people and you
get to know what shift you’re working with…who these guys are…what their
strengths are what their weaknesses are…there are some people who require more
close supervision than others…but there are some, you know, whether you’re
there or not the right thing is going to be done…they’re going to do an
outstanding job…there’s no reason to be breathing down their neck…you probably
don’t even need to show up on the call…if they call you then you know you’ve
got a problem when you hear from them…or when you show up you just kind of take
a backseat role and let them handle the call, deal with the people, make the
decision…and if they want to bounce a question off of you then you’re there but
you’re not getting your fingers into all the pies and over supervising. You know I didn’t like that when I was…some
supervisor breathing down my neck.
Another type of individual you see is…I guess what you’d call the
political climber…the one who is all concerned about their own career and where
am I headed and when am I going to get my next promotion…and I think that
causes a lot of people to lose respect for somebody if they feel as though that
you’re only interested in your self-promotion and your own career opportunity
and you’re not there…going to cover their back…I’ve seen that happen a number
of times…purely a politician looking out for number one. That doesn’t sit well with folks either. I can remember a supervisor that I had that
was a real nitpicker…I mean to the point where he had some obsessive compulsive
issues…and when someone is telling you to go park your car between the lines
because it wasn’t parked in the parking lot properly and so forth…you
know…yeah…
Interviewer: It’s too much…
Marc
Trundle: It’s too much…you’re losing
sight of what you’re really there for and what’s important and what’s
not…another one that I kind of jotted down is the academic type of supervisor
or someone who’s on the upward mobility track where…you know, they have
academically great credentials…pursued advanced degrees…maybe they function
very well in the academic environment but often what you see very often with
those kinds of people…and I’ve seen it at other agencies as well where because
they are good test takers and study and so forth…they advance through the ranks
quickly…sometimes way too quickly for their own good…and they move right up the
career chain and before you know it they are sitting in the Chief’s office and
they hardly have any real practical field experience and they haven’t been out
there to do the job and sometimes they don’t make the best leaders because they
know what it says in a text book but they’ve never really had the experience of
doing these things…no real experience base to draw on. And then another type I think we all fall
into is when you reach the short timer mentality if you’re done in your
career…you know you’re not going any higher…you get to the point where you know
you’re coming down to the finish line…you can see the finish line…you only have
a year to go or six months to go and you’re just kind of thinking…I just want
to get out of here…you know…I don’t really care that much anymore because this
isn’t going to matter to me in a few more months anyway…and that’s something
you got to…it’s tough…you got to kind of guard against it…you still have a job
to do…but after you’ve been around for twenty-five years or thirty or something
or you just get burned out and disenchanted…it effects everybody in the final
days of their career…
Interviewer: How is the function of being a law
enforcer…as a police officer…conflict with the feeling that we should be
more…play a more service oriented role…in other words, when you go to a call how do you take the hat of law
enforcer off and be more service oriented…how do you make a decision…sometimes
as a supervisor the officers look to you and go, “should we make an arrest on
this or is there a better way to handle this…?”…I mean…
Marc
Trundle: Well, I guess here’s where a
little more experience plays into this a little bit…it helps to have the years
on where you have encountered similar types of situations and I think when you
start out your career you see yourself as this knight in shining armor…you’re
going to come out here and save society…and look at all the arrests I have this
month and I’m ahead of all these other officers with my arrests and they see
arresting people as the solution and the end all of everything…but I think
after you’ve been on a while you realize that you’re not solving societal
problems by arresting people…you know…often times there’s deeper issues here…it
would be better for a long term solution if we find another way of handling
things…for instance, you go to how may domestic calls where it’s taken these
people twenty years to screw up this marriage and you’re not going to come and
solve it overnight…and if it kind of gets maybe a little violent…you know you
have the arrest as an option…and unfortunately sometimes we get put in a box
where we are required to make arrest…I’m not sure sometimes that is always the
right solution. Maybe what they really
need is to be separated and maybe they need some counseling…maybe one of them
has some substance abuse issues that need to be dealt with…there can be a lot
of things contributing to the reason you’re at this same house every weekend
for this family fight…and to go in and to start slapping handcuffs on people
might immediately solve or be the solution for tonight…but long term it’s not
going to solve this problem…so hopefully as a supervisor if you have some experience
you can look at different options…you might find there is a different way of
handling things…maybe that comes with maturity…
Interviewer: Did you ever have an opinion about community
policing…as a concept…I mean…
Marc
Trundle: You know it’s another one of
these buzz words I think has come down the pike…seems like every five or ten
years in law enforcement there’s some new theory…some new solution to the
problem…and new things police officers should be doing…like they just
reinvented the wheel…community policing I think is just kind of another word
for what old fashioned beat cops used to do all the time…I mean when they used
to go out and walk a beat they knew all the families in the neighborhood and
knew who the kids were and they knew which ones were the trouble makers and so
forth…and they used to handle community problems in a community policing type
fashion…it wasn’t called that then but they might grab some kid by the scruff
of the neck and march him home to mom and say…I just caught your kid doing
whatever…you might want to take care of this problem…or if they saw somebody
who just needed a hand…you know they might reach into their own pocket and give
this guy some money to go get a meal if he’s unemployed or just got laid off or
something…those are the kinds of things that I think cops have been doing
forever and wasn’t ever given an official title but I don’t think it’s going to
be community policing…I don’t think we are really designed to be social
workers…sometimes I think people would like to see us in that role…there are
times…probably a lot of times where we act more like social workers than law
enforcers but basically we should be there for the law enforcement function…
Interviewer: Some research in the past has indicated that
an aggressive style of enforcement...you know patrol intervention through
traffic stops, field interrogation, citations, and arrests…you know, just like you talked about, really does have a limited effect on crime levels and
actually could adversely affect the way the citizens feel about police in
general…what are your thoughts about that?
Marc
Trundle: I guess it depends on who you
talk to…
Interviewer: Because I was kind of surprised about that…
Marc
Trundle: I don’t know if I completely
buy that line of thinking. I suppose if
you’re part of the criminal element that’s being harassed by the police it’s
probably going to breed some friction with those people…but then again, if
you’re one of the people who happen to live in the neighborhood where this is
taking place and you see high profile aggressive law enforcement taking
place…cracking down on people who are causing the problems in your neighborhood
then you’re going to be in favor of that…but whatever you do I think you have
to…again, treat people decently and use a little bit of discretion…and one of
the areas that I think I can see that happening is in the traffic enforcement
realm…I mean if you have a target area where you have a lot of accidents or
maybe it’s a strip with a lot of bars and you want to crack down on the drunk
drivers and have sobriety checkpoints…I don’t have a problem with that at
all. But, if you’re going to be like
some communities…and we know which ones they are in Summit County who develop a
reputation of being a radar alley…you know, being
nothing but a radar trap and you’re using this just simply to build the city
coffers with revenue and you’re out stopping people for being five miles an
hour over and handing out tickets by the thousands…that’s going to upset people
and I don’t think you’re doing your agency any good when you’re taking that
kind of a profile and alienating people who may have been supporters until you
gave the stupid ticket for being a little over the speed limit…
Interviewer: You talk about alienating citizens…we talked
and it’s been said that law enforcement officers in the United States often
don’t want to associate too closely with the average citizen…they really don’t
count on the average citizen to help them when they’re in a tough spot…they say
they often expect to be confronted with hostile citizens who don’t appreciate
their efforts and don’t agree with the laws that they are expected to
enforce…how do you feel about that relationship with…
Marc
Trundle: Well, I think that is very,
very true…all of the above there. It is
true and I think that it is probably a process that takes place over an
officer’s career…and, you know, when you first start this job you see yourself
as the savior for society and think everybody should respect you and be
supportive of you and so forth and then after you’ve been in the job for a
while you realize that that’s not necessarily the case…some things that
happen…I think you just kind of naturally go through a process where you just
lose contact with other people outside of law enforcement…part of that is just
the job itself…you know you probably have your circle of friends who maybe you
grew up with or went to school with…and then you get on the police
department…well something just changed…you know, you’re now the cop and one of the
things is the scheduling…you know, when all your friends want to get together
for picnics and outings and let’s go to a ball game or whatever it is that you
like to do…golf or what have you…well, you’re not available…you know I’ve got
to work the weekends…I’m not free to do all the stuff on the weekends like all
my friends are…I got to work the holidays…I can’t get together for the Fourth
of July picnic…you know, I work the midnight shift on the weekend…I can’t be
running around and doing the things that you guys are doing…so it kind of
limits you in that respect…
Interviewer: And you have to sort of…you’re held to a
higher standard really…
Marc
Trundle: Absolutely, you know officers
find themselves where they go to a get together where you don’t know these
people…you’re not really comfortable letting your hair down with these
folks…and I’ve found myself and still find myself…I don’t tell people what I
do…I rather say I’m retired or I work for the city and try to let it go at
that…some people will probe you…want to know exactly what you do…you know you
may reach the point where you’re going to have to divulge that you work for the
police department, but for one thing a lot of people get uncomfortable around a
cop…
Interviewer: And you’re under a lot of scrutiny…
Marc
Trundle: You’re under scrutiny…you can’t
let your hair down…you can’t voice your opinions and say things that might
offend somebody…because now this badge of office kind of follows you and you’re
not really able to really feel comfortable and let your hair down…some people
tense up around you or you’re going to get the thing from people where they
want to tell you about the last traffic ticket that they got that they didn’t
really deserve that the dumb cop gave them and so forth…and you get tired of
that and so over a period of time I think officers just little by little will
withdraw from contact with civilians…and they find themselves…let’s get
together with other police officers or other law enforcement people and before
you know it the world is cops versus bad guys or everybody else…you know, you
work with these guys…you get together socially with them…you go on vacation
with them…you’re spending all your time and little by little you withdraw…it’s
a natural process but I don’t think it’s really healthy…and sometimes when you
do that over a period of time you lose perspective and forget…there really are
good people out there. As I got older…I
mean I fell into that trap…I lost a lot of friends that…they’d stop calling
after a while because you’re never available to go and then I hear things that
I don’t like…these people are doing things that I don’t approve of and so
forth…so, you find yourself involved with other policemen…but as I got older I
realized that…you know, there are still a lot of good people out there…and I
think it’s healthy for officers too…because if they find some kind of outside
activity where they just get to meet normal people…you don’t have to tell folks
what you do but just realize that…
Interviewer: Do you find that they will sometimes ask you
for legal advice that you really don’t want to…that you really don’t want to
provide…
Marc
Trundle: Oh yeah…hey, I’ve got a
question for you…yeah…hey, yeah…I’ve got this problem in my neighborhood…now
what should I do about this…yeah, you get all that, but somewhere along the
line you don’t want to develop a bunker mentality where you have no contact
with people in the outside world if you have some hobby or some sport or
something that you can get involved in where you can just meet other
civilians…hopefully, normal functioning people…that aren’t problem
children…then realize there are still a lot of good folks out there and they
really still do support you…we lose sight of that sometimes…
Interviewer: Do you think when you were a Sergeant…a
supervisor coming to a call…did you ever get the feeling that…ok, now that I’ve
arrived these guys are more apt to make an arrest? Did you ever get the feeling of that at all?
Marc
Trundle: Again, I think that depends on
the officers that you’re working with…I mean there are some people that are
going to do basically what they think should be done or handle things
properly…there are some that might fall into that line of thinking and
sometimes I think they’re playing off of you…they read you as to what they
think your expectations are…I mean I can remember working for some Sergeants
who just flatly didn’t want you to make arrests…you know back in the day prior
to all the Mothers Against Drunk Driving movement…and let’s crack down on the drunk drivers…I can remember when
there was a whole different feeling about drunk drivers…it was like everybody
drinks and drives…you know, I can remember this Sarge telling me…hey, cut the guy a break…let him
park his car…take him home…you know, hey, he’s a good guy…shit, give him a
lift…and it was kind of winked at…in fact, I got
chastised by a Sergeant because I had made a comment that this particular
Sergeant kind of mollycoddled the drunks and he says, “What do you mean?”…and I
said, well do remember this one and this one and this one…you told me to take
them home…you told me not to arrest these people…that’s what I’m talking
about…(laughing)…I think officers kind of figure, well, this Sergeant…I think
he probably wants us to make an arrest of maybe he doesn’t really want us to…so
they kind of judge their actions by what they think…
Interviewer: By who’s supervising…
Marc
Trundle: By who’s supervising…
Interviewer: We talked a little about promotion…most
departments have what they call a bottom-up promotional track…and I think that
is based on the fact they expect supervisors to have been exposed to basically
“the streets”…for lack of a better term…how do you feel about that and do you
think there’s a place, at all, for promotions from a pool of candidates that
really didn’t have a lot of street experience…I mean, what‘s your feeling about
that?
Marc
Trundle: I guess I’m a real believer in field experience…certainly
education…formal education has its place.
Professional education has its place…that’s important…but there’s no
substitute for actually having spent time in the trenches. You know, I remember a guy that I had for an
instructor one time…he had been a combat veteran from Vietnam and when he was
over there in his forward area he says, you know, over there they have these
fresh young officers coming out of OCS (Officer Candidate School) or right out
of West Pointe…he says, you know what the most dangerous thing in the world
is?...a second lieutenant with a radio and a map…because they had no idea…they’d
come in country and they had no idea what was going on over there…and I think
to a certain extent there is a certain similarity there to what we do. You know, there’s what they tell you to do by
the book, by policy and procedure and what some text book may tell you…but then
there’s the real world out there…and I think a person who has that field
experience is far more valuable and probably more respected by the rank and
file because he can draw upon some personal experience and we see sometimes a
lot of lateral entry come in from outside departments…could be good in some
cases depending on what the individual situation is at that agency…if there’s
no one that’s qualified…or maybe there…we’ve seen some situations where there’s
some screwed up police departments where they really do need a breath of fresh
air…and there may be a reason to bring in an outsider…but every agency has its
own culture and sometimes I think people will tend to…in upper management I
think…will put on a National search for someone and often times the end result
is what they bring in isn’t one bit better and probably not as good as some of
the people that were already there and knew the inside of the organization…and
sometimes somebody comes to you with that eye popping resume and can lay out a
sheet with all their training and background and they look good in the
interview…but after you’ve had to work for them for a couple of years you find
out…boy did we ever get a lemon here (laughing)…
Interviewer: Yeah, I guess that’s always possible…we
talked about this a little bit…there’s been kind of a…I guess a general thought
in the civilian world that police…that they should change their role from one
of crime fighter to one of a social worker with a gun…so to speak…it’s a
balancing act and we talked about it when we talked about discretion…when an
officer goes to a call whether they use that…you know, should they be crime
fighter or should they be the problem solver…this sort of goes along with
that…you probably have officers who are typically better at one than the
other…how do you create as a supervisor…how do you coach an officer to be
better or good at all those things and I don’t know that there’s an easy answer
to that really…?
Marc
Trundle: Well, because we are the only
twenty-four hour….365 day a year agency out there for people to call when they
have a problem…we are social workers first I guess…we are going to get the
call…whatever their family problem is or their individual issues are…
Interviewer: How do you change gears?...You’ll be fighting
with somebody one second…you’ve got to put them in jail and the next call…
Marc
Trundle: You’ve just got to be flexible
I guess…you know…as you know you can go out with the same person time and again
and one time you have to fight them and the next time you go out and he wants
to be your buddy and you can talk with him…and you just have to be adaptable
and flexible and nimble enough to kind of assess the situation and…what’s going
to solve this problem the best for right now…and long term too…but the approach
that works on Monday night is not really going to work on Saturday night when
you’re dealing with the very same family.
Interviewer: I guess you have to have a lot of patience…
Marc
Trundle: Patience…and some people have a
God given gift of gab…I’ve worked with officer’s who can go into the worst
situations and they have the most soothing, calming effect and they’re able to
calm everybody down, they can relate well, and they have a gift of gab…it’s
like honey flows from their lips and they calm these people down…and there’s
other officers who can walk through the door and they can start a fight in
church…you know, in two seconds they push somebody’s buttons because of the way
somebody’s attitude is, the way they carry themselves, the comments they
make…and you’ve got a fight on your hands…so,
Interviewer: We’ve talked a lot about…we’ve talked a lot
about how officers deal with a lot of different situations…that a lot of
times…there’s a lot of stress in police work…and a lot of times stress is
internalized…and I wanted to give you the opportunity to talk about some of the
things that you’re doing…in terms of volunteer work…that…I don’t think the
average citizen…I think maybe they think that there is a lot of stresses in
police work but I don’t know that they completely understand how that sort of
carries forward into their personal life and dealing with day to day life I
guess…can you talk a little bit on how you’re volunteering and we’ll start with
that…
Marc
Trundle: Well, from a historical
perspective…you know years ago there was nothing for police officers…this whole
idea of critical incident stress and so forth…the debriefings…was unheard
of…and, in fact, the attitude was that…you know…suck it up…you know, it goes
with the territory and, man, you got to just suck it up and deal with it…and
sad to say that attitude still exists in some agencies…since I’ve become
involved in the team that does the debriefings sometimes the biggest problems
we have is dealing with police Chiefs or command level police officers in some
of these agencies when you try to tell them…your people need this…you know,
they’re asking for this…this is good for you…the agency…to let them do this…and
there are still some that are like…oh, this is some touchy, feely, hand
holding, kumbaya stuff…they resisted…so we didn’t have it years ago and the
only way people really dealt with stress was in a negative fashion…a lot of
times there was the old story about the choir practices…everybody would go
someplace and take a few cases of beer and get blind drunk…and that’s the way
they dealt with their stress…and of course the side effects of that are very
negative…you know, you have officers develop alcohol problems…drug abuse…family
problems…divorces…it’s the whole host of baggage that goes along with dealing
with stress in that fashion…so, now finally I think we’re as a profession
finally making some inroads with the idea that these critical incident stress
debriefings…are not going to solve all the problems for people but really is
helpful…and I guess my first exposure to it was due to a couple of incidents we
got involved with…with the SWAT team…and I’d never been to a critical incident
stress debriefing…I had no idea what it was about…and we went through it…and
here’s a whole room full of cops and supposedly some of your
A-personality…macho guys…SWAT officers and there’s not a dry eye in the
room…and they’re all balling…over this thing that they had just been involved in…and
here was an officer who was in this briefing who had taken a life in the line
of duty twenty years ago…and he’s balling his eyes out…saying I wish I would
have had this back then…cause I never had a chance to talk about what happened
in my agency…
Interviewer: Get it off your chest…
Marc
Trundle: Just get it off your chest…and
you know…he went on to tell us…when I got back to the office…there were
guys…hey, killer how you doing…and you know back in the days when they carried
revolvers…cause he put six rounds in this guy…they took the six empties and
mounted them on a plaque with a picture of the body and so forth…you know,
thought they were being cute…they didn’t mean anything really harmful by it
but…you know, that didn’t sit well with him.
So, I became a firm believer after seeing everyone’s reaction that
night…after coming out of that thing…you know, I told my wife, I said this was
the most emotional thing I was ever…ever been involved in…I mean I was
crying…everybody was crying and after it was over I think everybody benefited
by it…so, anyway, after I retired I thought well,
I’d like to do…maintain contact with cops for one thing and do something that’s
a little helpful…give back…
Interviewer: Beneficial…absolutely…
Marc
Trundle: Beneficial…and if you have a
debriefing one of the nice things about this is it’s all police officers
involved…and so, when you get a bunch of cops…and sometimes they don’t want to
be there…some of them show up because they’ve been ordered to be there…they
feel comfortable talking to another cop…you’ve been there, done that, walked
the walk, talked the talk…they’re not going to bullshit you…you’re not going to
bullshit them…they know that you’re speaking from firsthand experience and you
can kind of break the ice and they’ll open up to you…now if you had a police
psychologist walk in through the door…I
know what would happen…they would clam up and no one would want to talk because
they feel like they’re being psychoanalyzed and gee…what’s this guy going to
write in his report…is something going to go back to my Chief that I said
something bothered me…is this going to have some repercussions to my career…is
somebody going to find out that I’m bothered or troubled by what I was involved
in, so…it’s been just a great thing to work with and afterwards guys would come
up to you and say…I really appreciate this…I wish we would have had this a long
time ago, in fact, we had guys who’ve been previously in the military who got
back from Iraq…and they’d say you know the military didn’t do crap for us…I
wish we would have had this available because they said…well, all they said
was, “Are you doing ok?”…well, what are you going to say…if you say no they’re
not going to discharge you they’re going to make you stick around and maybe put
you in a hospital or something…so everybody just said…hey, we just lied our ass
off and said…I’m fine…I’m doing fine…
Interviewer: Is this something that’s all over the United
States in police departments or relatively new or…
Marc
Trundle: Well, it’s relatively new…even
in this area…
Interviewer: What is it called in this area?
Marc
Trundle: This is called Assist 77…77
being for Summit County…and…but…we’re not limited to Summit County…I mean it’s
primarily that…although we have gone down to Stark County and done some for
those people and Portage County and done some for those people…and it
doesn’t…it tries to get everybody involved…it’s for the police officers…it’s
for the dispatchers who took the calls…for the EMS personnel who were on the
scene that were there…
Interviewer: Safety forces in general…
Marc
Trundle: Safety forces in general…and
it’s not mandatory that they do this but we’re trying to kind of reach out…if
there’s no contact person in the agency…to come to us and say would you do this
for us…sometimes you just see something happens…there’s been some story in the
newspaper and we don’t hear from them…sometimes we…
Interviewer: Make a call…
Marc
Trundle: Make a call…we have this
available…you might want to think about this…your people would probably benefit
from it…and one of the interesting things that has come out…you talked earlier
about stress coming from inside the police department…can’t tell you how many
times that when doing these debriefings the officers will tell you…the worst part
about this whole incident was my administration…how I was treated
afterwards…and the aftermath…the way things were said to me…the way that the
internal investigation was done and the interview and so on and so forth…so…
Interviewer: Well, I think it’s an important function…you
know, that you guys do…I mean, my hats are off to you because it’s something
that we probably needed a long time ago…like you said. So, I guess we’ll leave it at that…now I know
we’re going to try to get back together…like in a week or so just to do some
follow-up…maybe there’s some questions that we…although we covered a large…
Marc
Trundle: We covered a lot of ground…
Interviewer: We covered a lot of ground…so let me stop
now.
Here
is part two of the interview:
Interview: Part
Two
Interviewer: My name is Frank DiMenna and we’re here for
part two of our project…and thanks Marc for coming back for the second part.
Marc
Trundle: You’re welcome.
Interviewer: Why don’t we get started with the first
question? And, we’ll just start with
number one here: during your
twenty-seven years as a first-line supervisor you had an opportunity to
supervise officers from different generations…do you feel today’s officers come
to work with different goals or mind set…different work ethic?
Marc
Trundle: Yes, I believe so. When I first started…of course we still had
the older generation…many of the guys that I began my career with were older
than I and they had probably grew up in the 50’s and the 60’s and as I
progressed through my career we went through that generation…through generation
X…to generation Y…and there are different traits I think due to different life
experiences for these people…and I noticed I think with some of the older
officers…when I came on…many of them were Viet Nam era combat veterans…so, they
brought a lot of life experiences…they’d done a lot of living in their life
time and their values and so forth were quite different than what we see
today. I think they were probably a little
bit more inclined to follow direction without questioning that too much…not
that you expect people to click their heels and follow orders without any
question…they probably didn’t expect an explanation for everything they were
told to do…they just followed the program and did what was requested of
them…and a thing that I think I noticed over the years was initially there were
no labor contracts…when I started there was no such thing…so, you pretty much
just served at the pleasure…the administration set the schedule and work
conditions and the rank and file really had very little say in that…and that
just really is the way things were…and now I think…of course we’ve had a
collecting bargaining law in effect for quite some period of time…since the
80’s…and we have a younger generation of officers…and now they seem to be a
little more inclined to look at the contract and the fine print and want to
make sure everything is followed to the “T” and…what’s in this for me and…you
know, I should be entitled to the shift I want and the hours that I want and
what have you…and we didn’t use to have that…
Interviewer: Because it is a paramilitary organization
really…you know…
Marc
Trundle: Right.
Interviewer: You wonder about folks, who…instead of doing
what the Sergeant says or what the Chief wants…they sort of go…you know…go the
way they want to go sometimes…
Marc
Trundle: Right…we see that where these
people need continual guidance to kind of bring them back on track because they
have their own agenda…which doesn’t necessarily dovetail with maybe what the
first-line supervisor kind of wants.
Interviewer: So, how can we as Sergeants then…first-line
supervisors…how can we help these officers…these different officers from
different generations attain those proper values that we associate with good
law enforcement…you know, do we already have to hire these folks with these…
Marc
Trundle: I’m a big believer that when
you hire people they are bringing you certain traits, per se, a personality
that’s been developed in their lifetime and pretty much what you see is what
you get…I think…now, you can take someone who is motivated in the proper way
and maybe refine them a little bit or try to guide them somewhat…instill
certain values in them…but pretty much I think what a person comes to you with
is the person that they are…and I think that’s why it’s so very important that
when you do your initial hiring…that you thoroughly vet these people…screen
them…good background investigations…to make sure getting the caliber…the
quality person that you’re looking for…over the years we’ve seen any number of
cases…certainly in our department…where we hired people who came to us from
some other police department…they decided to make a career move…they came to us
and we thought we had done a decent background investigation and then after
they had been here a while we discovered that maybe this person isn’t quite the
sterling individual we thought they were…there’s some baggage here…and then we
find out…after the fact…well, where he came from he was a problem for them…and
I think when that kind of thing comes up…that’s just an indication…that’s a
failure of our management…that we didn’t uncover that.
Interviewer: Well, they say that the hiring process is one
of the most important things we can do here…
Marc
Trundle: I think that it is anywhere and
particularly when you get into the civil service realm where these people make
it through their one year probationary period…basically you’re going to live
with them. It’s going to very, very
difficult to get rid of a person once they achieve their civil service status
and pass their probation…you know the private sector has a little more
flexibility than that…but we have to be especially careful who we hire.
Interviewer: Well, you know you talk about these officers
and some of their virtues that we consider…that we associate with police
officers in general…are there any virtues that you would consider more specific
to a great Sergeant? I mean if you were
promoting…if you were in the position to promote…you know, you already have a
good group of officers…they should certainly already possess some of the good
virtues that we’re looking for…so now you’re looking to promote somebody from
that pool…is there anything more specific they need more than…
Marc
Trundle: Well, once again we’re kind of
in the same…about the same realm where you’ve had a chance to watch this person
as they’ve progressed in their career…and you’re not going to take a person who
has problems as a patrol officer and magically transform them into some
supervisor of quality…you know, they are what they are…you’ve had the chance to
watch them…probably in a variety of situations and you need to take that into
consideration. Again, you can send these
people away to some supervision school or some management school and maybe you
can polish off some rough edges here and there but basically they are the
person that they are…so, if you see areas where maybe they have difficulties in
personal relationships with their peers or they’re short tempered or rush to
make bad judgments and so forth…I think you can probably anticipate that you’re
going to have some problems with this person if they get into a supervisory
role…and we, again, we have seen that…or I have seen that over the course of my
career…where there were some people who got promoted…they were the highest
score on a civil service exam and virtually anybody…in the rank and file to the
lowliest patrolman…when they heard that this person was going to be promoted
they just kind of rolled their eyes and thought…oh, my God…he’s going to be our
new Sergeant…and in some cases people would bid on another shift just to get
away from this person because they knew this was not really someone they wanted
to work for…and during the course of our history here we’ve had some people who
were reduced in rank…and ran afoul…it’s a big step when you get promoted to
Sergeant and you have a whole lot more in the way of responsibilities…and if
you don’t have the quality person to begin with then it could create some
trouble for you. As far as personal
qualities I think one of the important things is someone who has enough
self-confidence…is a logical thinker but…also has the courage…the personal
courage to make the decision that needs to be made whether or not it’s
popular…they have to be a leader and not a follower…and, you know, a person can
be a great officer in many ways…have great relationships with his peers but the
personal side of it…if he cares more about how people view him and whether he’s
going to maintain his popularity than he does making a difficult call…which is
not going to be popular…that is going to create some real difficult issues for
him as a Sergeant…because this is not a job where you have to…you should be
letting your actions be driven by a popularity contest…
Interviewer: And that’s even tougher in a smaller
department isn’t it?
Marc
Trundle: Probably, yeah, because we are
just…being a smaller agency you are just…your decision may impact a large
number of your co-workers and in a large agency…I suppose if there’s somebody
who doesn’t function particularly well as a Sergeant you might be able to
reassign them to an area where they’re going to have limited contact with the
rank and file and we can put him in charge of broom closets or something…
Interviewer: (laughing)
Marc
Trundle: And, he doesn’t create a whole
lot of disturbance, but in a smaller agency he’s going to be in charge of
probably a whole shift…and it’s going to send shockwaves through the
organization if he’s not doing his job well…
Interviewer: And the ideal situation is that these
officers are going to work with you and not just for you…what happens when you
have officers where you sort of get the feeling that they’re trying to work
against you…now how successful can you be in that type of situation?
Marc
Trundle: Well, if you have a mutiny
going on…(laughing)…you do have a problem…and that’s going to be a real test I
think for any Sergeant. If that kind of
thing is going on he’s going to have to wrestle control…not that you want to
run by edicts but you’re going to have to set some very firm guidelines as to
who the supervisor is and what your expectations are and that you’re expecting
them to follow that…
Interviewer: Over the past several decades law enforcement
field has undertaken steps to increase its level of professionalism…do you feel
we’ve made progress in that area?
Marc
Trundle: Yes and no. In some ways I think we have…in other areas I
don’t think we’ve probably lived up to some of the earlier goals the profession
had…years ago when I first started…back in the 70’s there was a big push to
professionalize the police…the Federal Government was funding what they called
LEAP Grants…Law Enforcement Education Program…Law Enforcement Assistance
Program…and so forth…where they were providing college education paid for by
the Department of Justice for police officers…the goal then was that they were
going to raise law enforcement to the status of being like a physician or an
attorney…and it was truly going to become a profession…and some of the more forward
thinking agencies started to mandate college degrees for a basic requirement
for police officers and I know out West in Lakewood Colorado they did away with
the police uniforms…they had the officers dressed in suits and ties and they
were agents rather than police officers…and this whole thing was designed to
upgrade law enforcement and…I don’t know if you’d say unfortunately…but I don’t
think we really realized those kind of goals…it sounds good but it never really
panned out. That being said, I think
overall the profession has probably more so…has improved over the years but we
certainly aren’t on the level of being respected by our peers or by the public
in general…or being on the same plain as a doctor or an attorney…we’re not
there…one of the things…and you see rages come and go…different things…programs
such as CALEA which of course we’ve had our own experience with that here…again
the idea…the goal was we were going to be a more professional agency. I think the verdict is still out on that one…I’m
not sure it really has accomplished what it has set out…
Interviewer: Accreditation…
Marc
Trundle: The accreditation process…some
agencies probably had a need for that because they were so behind the times
they needed that kind of outside direction from an agency…to come in and
examine their operation and bring them up to the standards necessary…but other
agencies…and I think we were not in that bad a shape that we necessarily
required that…and although it was a laudable goal…I think it would probably be
more headaches than it was really worth…so, these trends come and go…
Interviewer: I remember hearing about that…I remember that
it was so cumbersome that we had to have someone full time…try to keep us
within the standards…
Marc
Trundle: Oh yeah, as a matter of
fact…the Lieutenant who was the coordinator of the accreditation process…it
took actually two full years of his life…full time…just shuffling paper…of
course everybody within the organization had some role in it…based on whatever
their particular specialization might have been or their involvement…we all had
to chip in because it was just an unbelievable amount of paper…a lot of paper
involved…proofs of compliance and inspections and so forth…and I shudder to
think what the total dollar amount that was spent on that effort…and we
achieved successfully the accreditation…the position of being an accredited
agency…we were the first agency in Summit County to be accredited…and we lived
with that for a period of time…I don’t remember how many years it was, but what
we also found was after we had lived with it for a while…it was kind of…put
handcuffs on us because there were certain standards that had to be met…there
was no flexibility in it for the administration…and the Chief is finding that
there’s a lot of things he’d like to do…tailor made for our needs here in
Tallmadge…and he couldn’t do that because accreditation standards through CALEA
demanded that things be done a certain way, so…the decision was finally made to
drop that whole process…
Interviewer: And getting back to education…you mentioned
that certain departments were moving toward officers having Bachelor’s degrees
or maybe an Associate’s degree…it seems to me…like we should pay more attention
to the quality of the person versus requiring someone to have a degree…I’m
assuming unless you’re trying to get promoted or you want to move up in the
administration…that might be a different story but…how do you feel about that?
Marc
Trundle: Well, I’m certainly not
anti-education…that is important, but it’s no guarantee that a person with a
four year degree or a two year degree or a graduate degree is necessarily going
to possess the traits that you’re looking for…and there’s nothing more common
than educated idiots. You know…they have
a sheepskin on the wall but it doesn’t necessarily mean that they have
practical experience…life experience…good judgment…the right temperament…I mean
the personal qualities that are really going to define whether you have an
effective police officer or not.
Interviewer: How would you describe the transformation an
officer typically makes as he progresses through his career from rookie to
someone who’s a seasoned veteran?
Marc
Trundle: Well, I think people go through
stages typically…it doesn’t necessarily apply to everyone…I don’t think you can
set it in stone, but generally speaking I think an officer will kind of
progress through several stages in his career…starting out as a rookie…and how
long that lasts…not set in stone…I would say for the first couple of years an
officer is kind of in a learning mode…a training mode…he’s got to get his feet
on the ground…learn his way around through this profession…at that point in
their career their enthusiasm is boundless and…they really want to…just can’t
get enough of police work…just eager and raring to go…and they just want to go
out there and slay dragons and make the streets safe for women and children…and
I think we all go through that. I look
back on how I was early in my career and I think…it kind of makes me laugh now
because I can remember coming in on my nights off to ride because I just
couldn’t get enough of police work during my regular forty hour shift…but you
get over that…and then after that…you know…you have a period where maybe
between roughly three and ten years…you know you’re an experienced officer…now
you kind of got this job figured out…have some time on the job…you’re really
functioning well…have enough training and background that you can just go out
there and effectively do that job…and you know you’re still high in your
enthusiasm for the profession and career…and maybe if you’re
fortunate…approaching ten years of experience or so you’ll be eligible for
promotion…that’s usually about the time most officers get their Sergeant’s
stripes…somewhere after around seven…ten years…something like that…from ten to
about twenty you’re talking about a true seasoned veteran…has a great deal of
experience…they can probably do the job darn near in their sleep…they’ve been
around the horn…these are the guys you really want to have on your shift
because they don’t require a whole lot of supervision. They still have a fairly good attitude about
them…although there’s a little polish off the apple…they’re not as charged up
and excited about the job but they certainly know the job well…they don’t have
to be watched…if necessary they’ll come to you if there’s an issue where they
need your opinion about something but they pretty much can handle it without a
whole lot of direct supervision by a Sergeant.
After, I’d say twenty years, now you’re talking the guys who are the old
drums…and I think now their attitude is probably starting to deteriorate a
little bit, and they’re getting a little more cynical…a little more burned
out…they realize that they don’t have too many more years to go and maybe
they’re kind of comfy in whatever position they’re in…whatever shift they’re
on…and they’re just kind of finishing out their career here and still can do
good police work when the occasion calls for it but they’re probably not going
to go out and bust their hump for you because their days of going out and being
a traffic Nazi…or have a lot of self-initiated activity is over. They’re just not really interested in doing
that…they’ll answer their calls and do what they have to do, but they’re not
going to go overboard with that…and then I think the final stage…and it effects
a lot of people in the final years…they just reach burn out…I mean now
they’re…in many cases they’re eligible to retire and they know they can walk
out the door any time they want…they can do the job, if required, but
they’re probably in the calendar marking mode…
Interviewer: (Laughing)…right.
Marc
Trundle: Where they are literally checking off the days on the calendar…how
many more days or months do I have to go before I’m outta here…and it doesn’t
affect everyone but I think that is very common place and after you’ve
experienced it you understand why people reach that point where they just want
to move on and they’re looking at the rest of their life now…what are they
going to do after the career thing comes to an end…so it’s a transition a lot
of people go through.
Interviewer: Is there a time frame…year wise…where you see
more officers get into maybe a more laid back attitude…maybe they become a
little too complacent…maybe you start seeing…maybe they’re not as
careful…they’re not…especially like on traffic stops or domestics…I’ve read
about that and sort of watched for it, but…
Marc
Trundle: Well, when you first start the
job I guess you’re fresh out of the academy and you’re convinced everybody out
there is going to kill you…you’re on edge…and the guy becomes the veteran…and
of course as we know…statistically he could lose his life in any point in his
career…but probably you’re in more danger later on in your career because…you
know…you’ve handled ten thousand traffic stops in your career and you’ve been
on how many thousands of domestic violence calls and…you always say no call is
a routine call but…it does become routine for you and you have to guard against
that…and you’re probably not keeping the amount of edge that you should…because
you let your guard down and that’s when you really become vulnerable…
Interviewer: Sure, how many alarm drops have you been
on?...(laughing)…
Marc
Trundle: Exactly, thousands and
thousands…and you just kind of have the mindset…here we go again…this alarm
goes off at this particular business all the time…you don’t respond actually
expecting to find a burglar in the building.
Interviewer: Well, let’s talk about discipline now…that’s
one of the things we don’t like to talk about…but first-line supervisors are
often called upon to handle the discipline regarding their line officers…in
some cases serious violations may result in employee termination…in your
experience are there any areas of employee misconduct which frequently lead to
discipline problems and/or termination?
Marc
Trundle: Well, I think that’s actually
kind of an easy one…of course we realize we have men and women in law
enforcement now…when I first started it was still pretty much a male dominated
profession…and probably to a large extent it probably still is…we have more and
more women…but, I think the two areas that probably cause the male officers
certainly…the most problems are women and booze. It’s a real career ender…certainly have seen
that with people here and other officers from other departments…you know, this
job does put you in contact with members of the opposite sex…some of these
people…women can be very aggressive…officers succumb to the temptations…and
before you know it you have the little flings going on…and if they’re really
foolish and this happens when they’re on the clock…on duty…which can lead to
real problems…and there’s also the element of the alcohol consumption…that’s
usually off-duty…although that has certainly happened on-duty too…but, I think
in most cases…the instances that I’ve seen…you know, the going out for a few
beers at a bar someplace…and the judgment gets clouded…and the next thing you
know you get involved in some incident off-duty…they go home…and now they’re
drunk and get into a fight with the wife…and that turns into domestic
violence…and you know that can be an instant career ender…in our profession if
there’s an incident of domestic violence…so, those two areas are probably the
most problematic for police officers…
Interviewer: How do you feel about that domestic violence
rule…I mean there’s a lot of states…and I guess counties as well…that say, you
know…if you get convicted of a domestic violence crime as an officer…you’re
done…your career is done…I mean should they have an opportunity to go through
counseling or something…one time through…or is that so serious an incident
that…you know…they don’t…
Marc
Trundle: Well, that’s…
Interviewer: That’s tough…
Marc
Trundle: Yeah, I don’t like to see laws
passed where things are just etched in stone…there’s no room for any…
Interviewer: Discretion…
Marc
Trundle: Discretion…to be used by a
judge…or in this case…legislatively…it’s a career ender…certainly there are
cases of legitimate domestic violence where this guy should lose his job…he has
a pattern of ongoing physical abuse…that’s unquestionably domestic
violence…then again…you may have a person who…it’s a onetime incident…maybe
he’s never…he’s never laid a hand on his spouse in his lifetime…could be a lot
of side issues going on in that marriage…maybe some alcohol use…the judgment is
not good…or sometimes you might have a spouse that might be egging him
on…trying to push buttons to get him in trouble…and then she makes an accusation
that he pushed me down or I got slapped or he grabbed my arm…I got a bruise on
my arm. I don’t think that’s fair to
ends someone’s career over something that was maybe a onetime incident…and
maybe both parties involved shared a certain amount of responsibility for what
happened.
Interviewer: What are your thoughts about the failure of a
first-line supervisor to initiate discipline when appropriate?
Marc
Trundle: Well, then I would say that he
is failing as a supervisor…if he doesn’t intercede…
Interviewer: You know…especially in a small department
where you have a close group…close knit group of officers to supervise…and you
know as a supervisor you separate yourself from the group but…you’re still
pretty close…you know…you’ve become friends with these guys and now an incident
comes up…maybe that’s not the most serious incident…but maybe it’s something
you need to address but…people hesitate sometimes…
Marc
Trundle: Well, the supervisor…you know
he’s being watched closely by all of his subordinates…and if you don’t take
some kind of action or address those things…and it’s noticed that you’re
allowing something to go on that shouldn’t then it has a way of snowballing…and
then you can always have it…as a Sergeant…have it thrown in your face…the next
time you try to discipline someone else…then the finger pointing starts…well,
you let so and so do such and such…you never said anything about that…you know,
why you picking on me. So, this has to
be done…I think with a little bit of discretion…it doesn’t necessarily call for
a formal discipline…it might just be a private talk with whoever the violator
is and let them know…hey, I know it’s not a huge violation, but I can’t have
that kind of thing going on and I don’t expect to see it again…and with the right
frame of mind and the right attitude hopefully the person will take your advice
to…correct that problem…but to let that go on is probably going to be a mistake
and lead to more problems down the road for you…
Interviewer: What about performance evaluations…how do you
think…what’s their role in preventing or correcting performance problems…do
they have a role in law enforcement…I guess in general? I guess that’s a good place to start…
Marc
Trundle: I think…depends…(laughing)…I
think that they have a role in that they force people to sit down and
communicate…it opens the door to face to face communication on a real serious
level between management…I guess the first-line supervisor and his people…and
sometimes just day to day you don’t generally have the opportunity to do
that. How seriously people take those
things…I think that depends to a certain degree how long they’ve been on the
job…I think I’ve noticed with the younger officers…they take it a lot more
seriously than the older officers.
Sometimes when you call the old dogs in for their performance
appraisals…you lay it down and they say…just show me where to sign…they don’t
even want to look at it…they could care less…they know if…it’s not going to
affect their life in any way…to any great measurable degree…and they don’t
really care about the form…and they’ll sign it…they just want to get it over
with…younger officers sometimes take this more to heart…but, they do force you
to have some face time…and I think in a disciplinary role…again, it gives you a
chance to maybe lay the ground work…set the guidelines as to what your
expectations are so that they know what you expect of them and you can
reinforce that during the performance appraisal process…and it also gives the
supervisor a chance to find a little more out about the employee and what’s
going on in their life…maybe what their goals are career wise…if they’re having
problems on this shift maybe with another employee…it just lays…or provides the
setting to draw those things out…and I think it’s always healthy when people
are communicating…so…
Interviewer: Absolutely…again, with the performance
evaluations…how can we as Sergeants make sure that we don’t fail to evaluate
these officers objectively?...and not let our personal feelings get involved in
this process…
Marc
Trundle: Well, that’s something that you
have to guard against…be it good or bad…you know, you can have some Sergeants
that may have…you know they call it the halo effect…they have a real high
opinion of a certain officer because of their performance or because they just
like that officer and in their mind nothing…this person can do no wrong…and on
the other hand you may have some friction between the Sergeant and a certain
employee that tends to kind of overshadow…color everything that this officer
does…trying to work with this Sergeant…so, one of the things that I think I saw
implemented here…that I thought was real positive…was the method…the
methodology of sitting down and conducting the performance appraisals so that
all the Sergeants were present and everyone had some input into this…so it
wasn’t all falling on the shoulders of the immediate supervisor…
Interviewer: Sure, then you have a group of Sergeants…and
one might go…hey, you know what…you’re being a little too critical…I’ve seen
some really good things…and you go back and forth…and before you know it you do
sort of have a very good…
Marc
Trundle: Absolutely, and you know you
may work with a guy the bulk of the time…but he may be doing good things on
other shifts…for other Sergeants…that you weren’t even aware of…or, on the
other hand…he may be causing problems for some Sergeant that you weren’t aware
of either…so, that’s why I think there is a lot of merit for putting everyone
in the room…talk about this particular person…your individual experiences with
him…how would you grade him…and then when you do this department wide…you come
up with some final scores and you can kind of rank order them…and take a look
at the bigger picture…now, does officer A really deserve to be above officer B
and C?...because B and C do a pretty good job too…so, there is probably no
perfect way to do this…but, I thought that was very helpful…
Interviewer: Ok, we talked in the past about what you
thought was a great Sergeant…I’m going back to that a little bit here…I’m going
to ask you…a Sergeant’s ability to make proper…the right decisions, possessing
the proper reasoning ability, using good judgment…how does that play a role in
your definition of a great Sergeant…in other words, certain Sergeants we rely
on the experience they already have…maybe some intuition…but are these things
they can learn or is this something that they already need to possess…you know
like common sense, for example…I mean is this something that they already need
to have?
Marc
Trundle: Well, I think we kind of
touched on that a little bit when we talked about the hiring and screening
process…you know, you talk about the hiring process for someone you’re
considering a be new hire…but then that same thing should go on when you consider
who you are going to promote…it’s even more critical when they reach that
position where they are going to potentially be one of your supervisors…I’ve
heard the comment made…well, relating to money or power…how it changes
people…how it can really change a person…I don’t think it necessarily changes a
person…I heard a quote…actually, I think it was Opera Winfrey…they asked her
about her vast wealth…and they said does that change you…and do you feel it
somehow changes people in general…and she says, well
no…it doesn’t change you it amplifies you…and I think that’s very accurate…and
I think that the same things applies to power…if you’re in a position of
supervising people it’s going to amplify whatever your personality traits are
for that person…again, you might be able to send them for some kind of
training…fine tune them a little bit…you know, polish the diamond a little
bit…but, they are pretty much the person that they’ve always been and you’ve
had time to work with them or watch them through their career…and if you have
someone who is abrasive and has personality issues…doesn’t get along with
folks…and has a history of not using particularly good judgment…and all those
kinds of things… you put them in a position where they’re going to be promoted…you’re
going to put a gold badge and Sergeant chevrons on their sleeve…I think you’re
going to have some real problems…
Interviewer: I would assume that they would end up in the
Lieutenant’s office…(laughing)…
Marc
Trundle: (Laughing)…Well, they’re Chief material
actually…(laughing)…
Interviewer: (Laughing)…
Marc
Trundle: (Laughing)…We always kid about
that kind of thing…but, yeah…this is…as we have talked earlier…one of the most
critical positions in the police department…first-line supervision…and I think
that it requires that you’re very selective about the people…and the highest
test score does not necessarily accurately reflect who’s going to be the best
quality person for the job…
Interviewer: That’s true…well, we have covered a lot of
material over these last two interviews…and I certainly appreciate your time in
this project…because, you know, you just can’t sit down and talk with people
that have as many years on as you have…and the experiences that you’ve gone
through…and to be able to convey that in this paper I think really makes some
interesting reading…especially if someone’s interested maybe in trying to get
promoted to Sergeant, in particular…I can see this…you know, do I really want
to go that route, so…I really appreciate your help.
Marc
Trundle: Well, I hope it all works out
well for you…I wish you the best of luck on your project…
Interviewer: Well, thanks…I’ll go ahead and end it there…
Marc
Trundle: Ok…thank you.
Discussion
A lot
of material has been covered thus far, which has uncovered some interesting and
important ideas for all of us to consider.
Some of them I would like to discuss a little further:
Differing Styles of First-Line
Supervision
When
we try to determine what style of supervision is more effective we have to
adequately identify and define each one in order to compare and contrast. Engel (2001), as stated earlier, identified,
broke down, and labeled differing supervisory styles such as: authoritarian, democratic, laissez-faire,
telling, selling, participative, delegating, relations oriented, task oriented,
inspirational, motivational, traditional, innovative, supportive, and
active. (Engel, 2001) These supervisory styles all basically can be
lumped into what Pursely (1974) then called:
traditional and non-traditional.
(Pursely, 1974) The
traditionalist wants to maintain control, which is attained through a tight
structuring of what he or she deems allowable in terms of types and quantities
of work. With this style the rank and
file is well aware that a democracy does not exist and that the Sergeant is in
charge, without exception, otherwise discipline ensues. The non-traditionalist style, on the other
hand, is more apt to delegate responsibility and ask for opinions forming a
more participatory type of leadership.
This style uses the subordinate officer’s knowledge and abilities in an
effort to develop self-reliance and confidence.
It is a risky endeavor but often improves moral because officers have a
sense of ownership. Sergeants probably do
not neatly fit into one or the other; but rather, take on a blend of each.
Sergeant
Trundle spoke about several other factors, which influence how a Sergeant might
supervise, regardless of what formal style of leadership is used. The first is the “political climber” who, for the most part, looks at many situations with their
promotional aspirations in mind. Someone
who may, in the back of their minds, be asking how a situation can be angled
into something that will help with their career. This type of motivation behind the
supervision is obviously not just isolated to police work. Next, he points out the Sergeant who is the
academic type. One who has all the
formal education needed, and more, but primarily gets promoted because he is an excellent test
taker. He points out that this type of
Sergeant often does not have the practical experience necessary to excel
immediately - often getting promoted faster than what is good for them because
they do not have an experience base to draw upon.
Lastly, he identified the “short-timer” Sergeant who is just biding time
with retirement right around the corner and consequently just wants an
uneventful shift. This leads us into the
next important point.
Stages of the Police Career
Sergeant
Trundle adequately takes us through the stages an officer goes through during
his or her career in law enforcement.
This is important to understand when evaluating a police officer. We start with the rookie who is in the
learning and training modes. This young
officer’s enthusiasm is boundless and typically they cannot get enough of
police work. The officer in the three to
ten year range is what we call an “experienced officer” who basically has the
job figured out. They have enough
experience and training to be an effective officer. Their enthusiasm is still high and they are
ripe for promotional opportunities at this stage. Between the ten and twenty year time frame
you have a “seasoned veteran” who possesses a great deal of experience and who
could probably do the job in their sleep.
This is the officer who you want on your shift because they often do not
require much supervision. They still
maintain a fairly good attitude but they are not as charged up or excited about
the job. Post twenty years an officer’s
attitude is deteriorating and they are basically burned out from the stress and
workload of policing. They are satisfied
with where they are in their career and the days of self-initiated activity are
over. Lastly, he identifies those
officers who are eligible to retire.
These officers are usually completely burned out and are in “calendar
marking mode” with their sights on retirement. They know they can retire
whenever they want so the stress of the job starts to diminish. This leads us to the next important point.
Stress
We
often hear the public talk about how they know how stressful the job of
policing is, but do they really know? It
is important to understand what an officer goes through before making judgment
on how they are doing. Officers often go
through a process of withdrawal from the public and friend groups to which they
used to belong. They often develop a
mentality that emphasizes the differences between the public and themselves. A Sergeant can play a role in the reduction
of stress for the officers they supervise, but they often encounter a different
level of stress themselves which they might not have thought about when they
took the promotional exam. Their
relationship with the peers they have bonded with over the years is now
different. The friendships formed have
now changed dramatically since their promotion – they are not one of the boys
anymore.
Sergeant
Trundle pointed out that stress is something that officers are often told to
just “deal with”, which may leave officers in a position to do so in a
negative fashion. They can sometimes
turn to alcohol, for example, which can create additional problems long-term
including family problems such as divorce and domestic violence, which can then become a career
ender. Recently, the profession has
developed and is in the process of implementing what has been called the
“critical incident debriefing”. This is
a cop to cops session, which creates an environment that encourages openness
and healing. Sergeant Trundle volunteers
as part of a group, which assists officers with these debriefings. He and his partners should be lauded for
their efforts. One bit of information
concerning these debriefings stood out.
He pointed out that officers sometimes identify their own department’s
administration as part of the problem they encounter after a stressful
event. Specifically, how they handle the
incident internally within the department.
Departments should take note: How
they handle these incidents and treat their officers during this stressful time
could influence them for many years.
Supervision by Generations
It is
important to realize that with generational change comes the difficult task of
trying to instill traditional work values, which have been so permanently
ingrained in the police subculture, into the new generational group. The clash between a Sergeant who attempts
this and those new generationally influenced officers often weakens moral. How a Sergeant deals with this can directly
impact the success of the organization.
There has to be movement by both parties involved. A compromise in which the Sergeant realizes
that there is going to be a learning curve for the new officers with respect to
instilling discipline. One in which he
will have to set the tone on how he or she wants to run their shift but with an
understanding that some change is inevitable. Yes, it is a paramilitary
organization but as supervisors we have to be open to new ideas when
appropriate.
Sergeant
Trundle relates that he has observed that the older generation typically is
more inclined to follow direction without too much questioning. They will do what is asked of them. The new generation, on the other hand, often
wants to know what is in it for them.
That they should be entitled to the shift they want, the new cruiser
that they want to use, and so forth.
That they constantly need to be “brought back on track because they have
their own agenda” and he points out that this type of personality is developed
during the officer’s lifetime. He adds
that these individuals can be refined a little but “what you see is what you
get” – an example of the critical need to conduct a thorough screening during
the hiring process. Some people just do
not want to be told what to do and find it difficult to take direction.
What makes a “great” Sergeant?
Sergeant
Trundle discussed his thoughts on what encompasses a “great” Sergeant: First, of course, the need to have a good
working knowledge of state and local laws.
In addition, you have to know your search and seizure law. Why?
Because you are going to be applying those daily and subordinate
officers are going to be coming to you for guidance concerning them. He continues that the Sergeant must be able
to function under stress. Be able to
think clearly and render good judgment while under such stress. Additionally, they must lead by example: if you are talking the talk then you best
walk the walk. Officers will find you
out, if you are not, and you will ultimately lose their
respect.
Additionally,
you must occasionally set an example, which sometimes is not popular. Be willing to make a decision. Ultimately, as Sergeant, you have the last
word – and sometimes you have to reinforce that fact. You also have to be able to relate and stand
up for the troops when necessary while simultaneously running the shift and
maintaining discipline. Remember, you
are not “one of the boys” when you sew on the stripes. You have to maintain a close distance. We build on successes – one incident at a
time. It is probably not possible to be
a “perfect” Sergeant nor would it be prudent to try, but always striving to be
better as a Sergeant is something that is very important.
Conclusion
The
position of Sergeant, first-line police supervisor, requires sound judgment,
exceptional reasoning, and the ability to make rational decisions even under
moments of stress. The position sits
precariously between upper management and line-level officers requiring the
Sergeant to successfully function managerially in both directions. There are obviously many different styles of
supervision and we can break these styles down in order to get very specific,
however, we can basically and conveniently lump these into the traditional and
non-traditional styles. A trend, one
that is not always embraced by the traditional style Sergeant, advocates the
development of subordinates and their problem solving skills. This style emphasizes the development of the
subordinate officer’s problem solving skills and their ability to think
creatively. An advantage to this style
is that we can utilize the officer as a resource more efficiently, which is
important in tough economic times.
Generational
differences can hamper this process and make the development of new officers
more cumbersome, often hampering the Sergeant’s ability to instill traditional
work standards concerning just what should make up an officer’s daily duties
and what is expected of them. How the Sergeant
manages and bridges this generational gap, and the tension it creates, has everything to do with
moral. Often, though, the younger
generation can have an agenda – one that sometimes conflicts with departmental
demands. Additionally, Sergeants must
decide if their shift officers should focus more on their role as law enforcer
or social worker – or perhaps strike some appropriate level between the two
roles.
Stress
can affect a police department’s ability to successfully achieve its’ crime
fighting and community service roles.
The stresses that officers face, how the Sergeant and the department
mediate those stresses or add to them, plays an important part in the
department’s success. Officers, through
a naturally occurring phenomenon that occurs over time, acquire a feeling of
the “us versus them” mentality concerning their relationship with
citizens. The Sergeant position takes it
one step further – once promoted they are now not “one of the boys” either –
adding an additional layer of stress to an already overly stressed vocation. Officers often have a career progression that
can be attributed to stress levels in some ways as well; from the newly hired
and highly motivated proactive rookie to the calendar marking and reactive “old
dog” veteran who can see retirement within their sights. Keeping both types of
officers and all that are in-between, happy and engaged in their duties is a
challenging task for Sergeants.
Thanks
to retired City of Tallmadge Police Sergeant Marc Trundle we were able to
discuss some of these issues. In
addition, we were able to talk about Sergeant Trundle’s thirty-five year career
history and some of the changes, challenges, and highlights that he has had
during that time. Without Sergeant
Trundle’s input this paper would not have been possible. One thing we can be sure of as we review the
current literature and listen to Sergeant Trundle’s remarks is that the
position of police Sergeant is an extremely important one. This is a position that requires officers,
who are thinking of making the leap to first-line supervision, to take a step
back and not make the decision lightly.
Additional responsibilities, accountability, challenges, stresses,
result when an officer decides to sew on the embroidered chevrons – the
question that must be asked is: are you
up to the challenge?
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